I’m going to respectfully disagree with our friends over at Lucky Gunner. They put out an article where they say that the Shockwave is Mostly Useless. And maybe it is to the untrained, uninitiated, and those who just don’t understand the Shotgun.
What the Shockwave is, is basically a legal to own, stockless, short-barreled, 12 Gauge firearm. It’s legally “Not a Shotgun” because of some reasons no one really gets but everyone, including the ATF, is playing along with. Because no one really cares about barrel length anymore. Too late for Randy Weaver’s family… but there we have it. It’s based on the Mossberg 590 platform, which gives us a robust action and a heavier barrel, making this one tough little firearm. Continue reading Mossberg 590 Shockwave
For YEARS I’ve advocated the Remington 870 as the Defensive Shotgun of Choice. I’ve always loved the 870, and I still do.
When you take a Mossberg and add the Magpul stock to it… Something magical happens. You have something greater than the sum of it’s parts.
To explain this… let me explain the pros and cons.
The Mossy has the superior shell lifter for tactical reloading and more efficient and safer unloading. The Mossy also has that tang mounted safety that allows for efficient left or right hand shooting. The Remington system is certainly right hand biased, and shelf lifter makes tactical reloading a bit more tricky as you are fighting against the lifter’s spring while trying to shove in a fresh shell. And you have to finesse the gun and roll it to get it unloaded and cleared. It’s less than ideal.
Where the 870 wins is it’s steel construction verses aluminum, and the fact that you can easier run a pistol grip… if you are Right Handed, and you don’t have prehensile thumbs. But really, we make space ships, fighter jets, baseball bats, and armored fighting vehicles out of aluminum… so I don’t think the Steel of the 870 is really that big of an advantage anymore. It does make the gun a bit heavier, and that’s not too bad in a shotgun… but… now this is more personal taste than any actual advantage.
Now enter in the Magpul stock to the equation. The stock has these spacers that you can put in, or pull out, that let’s you set the length of pull to be just right for you and how you want your gun set up. It also allows a perfect positioning of your shooting hand’s thumb to work the safety as needed – Left or Right handed. The stock’s shape also manages the Gauge’s Recoil very well… making it handle very well while firing. It might be different in the way it feels when holding the gun and walking around… but when you shoulder it and raise that gun up onto target – it all comes together. This is the way a shotgun should be.
So… Yes… I am a Mossberg fan. Specifically, the 590 series. A 590 with a Magpul Stock is my Shotgun of Choice now.
Nice! Another Shotgun Post! This one though is rather special. For the last 2 years I’ve been looking for something to replace the Butler Creek stocks, and I finally found something worthy. Thanks to WTA Member ZeroTA. He posted this beautiful set for sale for $25 bucks and I had to have them. Boom! Paradise Found.
Gone is the Butler Creek folding stock that has been on my main 870 Tactical since the hour I acquired it. A stock that I had put on every shotgun I’ve owned and or used since my first shotguns.
Here’s the 870 Tactical now wearing a set of Walnut stocks from a Wingmaster. They are beautiful and warm, and really add class to this beast of a shotgun. Once again the look of the Classic Furniture on a newer model just looks flat out awesome to me.
Next thing to go will be the “Tactical Choke” to be replaced by an Extended Choke Tube of something in between IC and Modified, without the spike ends.
YES! Another SHOTGUN Post! Booyah!
I’ve been seeing some nice guns that have had the original synthetic stocks replaced with classic wood furniture. I love the look of such guns so I did it myself. This is a pretty new Remington 870 HD model, which normally comes with the typical Express Synthetic stocks. Some classic old Walnut stocks look much nicer. These old stocks bear a lot of stories that I don’t know. But I didn’t have the heart to clean them up and refinish them. So I left them as they were. Can’t wait to shoot it.
I also can’t wait to do this to my 870 Tactical that is currently wearing a Butler Creek folding stock.
I don’t know what it is, but I grow more and more fond of older guns, older style guns, and classic firearms, that I am of anything new coming out.
I’ve been an 870 fan for a long time. Preferring them over the Mossbergs, even though I’ve used 590’s as my Patrol Shotgun for some time… 870’s just seemed more rugged and smoother. Mossbergs have never been known for being smooth operators. But they do slick up nicely with a little work and use.
Today I put a lot of use into one. With the intent of purposefully abusing it, and my shoulder, to see which would break first.
I fired at least a hundred shells, all high brass, mixed of Buck, Slug, and various birdshots most of that being #5 and #6 hunting loads. I grabbed the shells blind and loaded them in no order. Just a random mix, with no purpose, other than to find any failure in the gun.
What I found instead was an even greater respect of the Mossberg design, and the design of the Magpul stock. After so much abuse, my shoulder and my shotgun remain just fine. The recoil absorption of the stock is amazing. It made the session quite tolerable. I really do like the Mossberg’s shell lifting mechanism over that of the Remington. Much easier to load and unload. This is a clear advantage over the 870 mechanism. And with the Magpul stock, a clear advantage in the position of the safety as well.
For some reason I’ve been getting a lot of questions about the best pump action shotgun. Well, here’s the deal… There is no best pump action shotgun. There’s no ideal pump action shotgun. It doesn’t exist. There is no such thing. Even my beloved 870 is not the ideal shotgun. It’s not perfect.
My top Pump Action Picks are as follows:
1. Remington 870.
2. Mossberg 500/590.
3. Benelli Super Nova.
And that’s it. Those 3. In that order. And really, the Benelli if you want the option for 3.5″ shells. Which is nice, but unnecessary. But I do like the stocks and the sights. But not much else.
My ideal pump action shotgun, which doesn’t exist, would be a hybrid of the 870 and the 500/590.
I like the Steel Receiver and the Bolt of the 870. But I like the Shell Lifter and Safety on the 500. If I could have an 870 fitted with a Mossberg Safety and a Mossberg Shell Lifter – and use the Magpul shotgun stock – That would be just about damn near as ideal as it could get. Let’s add good Rifle Sights to it, and interchangeable choke tubes. That would do it, pretty much.
The Magpul stock on a Mossberg is probably the ideal set up. Or at least the most ideal set up I’ve handled. It’s very ergonomic and feels great… keeping the felt recoil under control and keeping the safety right there where you need it.
No thanks. A 10 Pound Shotgun, with a Safety that can’t go back on if only one barrel is fired, and has two barrels regulated like Marty Feldman’s eye balls. Maybe it’s well made, like LV says. But maybe it’s not well made enough and needs a little more Well Made to get it right. Even if it was flawless… 10 pounds. It’s also huge and bulky and I don’t see the need for a double barrel pump. This is less Serious Use Shotgun and more Novelty “because we can” Shotgun.
I’d rather have a KSG than this. Heck, I’d rather have a UTAS UTS-12 than this. And of course, I’d rather have a good old 870 than this.
This Speed test. Firing only enough rounds to make it look like it has a serious advantage over the 870? Laughable. Instead of testing which shoots X # rounds faster – so the Durp-12 doesn’t have to reload – how about a test where the Guns are fired until empty, fully reloaded and fired again. Let’s see that test. Because the number of rounds in the gun is only temporary. All guns will run dry.
And those Angled shots? Not much of an angle from the looks of it. Slightly up and slightly down? Not much of a test. Larry Vicker’s “Tests” seem to lose credibility every time.
His camera crew though, freaking bananas on those slow mo’s. But it’s almost becoming too much. They are over doing it. And no matter how cool it looks – LV doesn’t need to talk so much giving a SITREP for every new shooting position… judas priest the man talks too much! He’s going to give Nutinfancy a run for his mouth money. Maybe Nutinfancy needs to do more Slow-Mo. Anyways, back to the Durp-12…
You can aim POA-POI on one barrel and then you have to hold completely different for the other barrel at 100 yards. That’s a fail. It just is. ESPECIALLY since you can’t put the weapon on safe with just 1 barrel fired. FAIL FAIL FAIL! That’s just unsafe.
No… I don’t like the Durp-12. LV can keep it.
The FN SLP is one of the very best Self Loading shotguns on the market. It plays second fiddle only the Benelli M4, only because the Marines selected the M4. For those of us who have to buy our own guns – 2,000 dollars on a Shotgun is just not wise. The SLP can be hand from 1,000 to 1,200 at retail which makes it far more realistic. But are you really giving anything up from not having an M4? No, not really. You have a rugged and reliable action. You have awesome sights which are similar to the M4’s. And you even have a greater capacity. So when it comes to a serious use shotgun – the SLP is every bit as awesome.
The Benelli M4 has something the SLP Tactical doesn’t have… I’ll get to that in a moment. Working the gun counter at the best gun store in the region, I sold a lot of shotguns…. A lot of those shotguns came through my Tactical Shotgun Courses. So I saw those guns get used. Used hard like a fresh faced redhead girl just off the bus in LA looking to become the next hollywood star. In selling these guns, a lot of them were to Law Enforcement. And their choices came down to the M4 or the SLP Tactical. One or the other. They most often picked the M4. Why? Because that one thing the SLP doesn’t have. A good pistol griped stock. FNH’s Pistol Grip Stock is a little lacking. The stock its self is great. I like the modules that allow changes in the stock’s length of pull and comb… but it’s the pistol grip its self.
The pistol grip on the M4 is spectacular. It’s thick and meaty… cushioning… It’s the best on the market, now or ever. It’s the best the Industry has ever created for shotguns. Take a good hard look at the M4’s pistol grip – and do that. Just do that. Don’t argue about it. Don’t point fingers… just do it. The SLP Tactical’s grip doesn’t compare. It just doesn’t. And when you go Side by Side with the Benelli M4 – you’ll see what I mean.
One more thing. Give me the option of a factory Cerakote. I’m big on color options because colors sell. But only coat the metal. None of the furniture. FDE, OD, and give me a Burnt Bronze option – because I want that and it would be the tits. Nothing else. No special markings or titles or logos… simple. Understated. But bronzed out.
Now the MK1 is really intended for an optic… but they mostly never get any optics mounted on them. Which leaves you with a set of iron sighs and an empty rail that looks a bit daft. If this rail could be removed – that would be great. But my beef with the MK1 is in one small detail. That rear sight. This small, cheap blade that looks like you took if off a Ruger 10/22. This rear sight needs to be adjustable. This gun is perfect for launching slugs. Different slugs have different points of impact and the gun needs to be zeroed POA-POI for max effectiveness – something FNH is all about. To do that, I need an adjustable rear sight. Sure, I could just put on a Red Dot and zero that – but why? When the gun could have a good rear sight from the factory? Come on. This gun is world class, but that rear sight is a wort. I can’t be the only guy that’s ever said this. This shouldn’t be a new idea to you. Someone at FNH has to have said that to you guys before. You guys should have listened. I actually had the chance to buy one of these real cheap. I passed. Why? The Rear Sight. Where was this at? Last Tuesday at your new brand new Pro-Shop in Columbia. I wanted to like it – but the rear sight just killed it for me.
So for the MKI – Adjustable Rear Sight. That’s all I’m asking.
The SLP Competition.
Good to Go.
I really have no comment about Over-Unders. O-U’s are for a richer man’s sport than what I play in… But from the guns I’ve tried they all shoot very well and do exactly what they are supposed to. And they cool cool. Now – I know you guys have some close relations with Browning. Browning had an Over Under that I almost bought. Came very close I liked it that much…
FN doesn’t have this type of O-U. A light weight synthetic. Maybe you don’t need it in your line up. But – just saying – I did sell a lot of Bownings and that Sporting Composite, we couldn’t keep on the shelf. Think about it.
The FN P-12
Understand something. Pump Shotguns are my THING. I have a passion for them. I really want to like the P-12. But something is holding me back. I think that something is the same issue I have with the SLP MK1. That Rear Right. And that Cantilever Rail. So two things. See… I like pump shotguns for their simplicity and purity of purpose… and their violence of action. And the P-12 is almost there. I don’t need my pump action shotgun to have a Railed Comb-Over. But I do like the OPTION of being able to easily add a rail if I want to. Ditch the Comb over and drill and tap the receiver for rail attachment, and give me a short rail section in the box. Give me that adjustable rear sight. And one more thing. Push that Magazine Feed Tube out to the length of the muzzle for just 1 more round of capacity – but just flat out better looking results. Because the P-12 is looking like a murdered out Ithaca, with a comb-over.
You guys fix that – and I’d do something I can’t even believe I’m saying… You fix that P-12 like I said… and I’ll trade you one of my favorite and most beloved Remington 870’s for it. Yeah. I would.
I don’t know what it is, but some questions have been coming in from multiple folks asking about the viability of a Lever Action Shotgun for Tactical use. This answer is a straight up no. Reason being, is that the Lever Action Shotgun loses the advantage of flexibility that the normal shotguns have, or the ability to top off on the go like a normal lever action rifle. So instead of being the best of both worlds, it’s the worst of both worlds.
Sure, Terminator 2 made it look cool with the firing from a motorcycle and spin cocking it… But that’s about where the cool factor comes to an abrupt end.
The reloading is second to none when it comes to being slow and awkward.
The reliability is questionable in every Winchester and Win-Clone I’ve seen. But even if you had one that ran as reliable as the Sun Rise – it’s still limited with a very short mag tube that you can’t extend, and reloading is about as clumsy as mechanically possible.
Even one as practiced as Master Quinn has a time of running these things.
A Shotgun has it’s advantage in being Situationally Flexible. You take that away from it – it’s handicapped drastically.
A Lever has it’s advantage in being light and easy to handle, narrow in profile, and easy to top off on the go. Take those things away from it, and it’s handicapped.
I see no point in these Lever Action Shotguns other than as a Novelty or a Historic Curio Reproduction.
The use of one in a Tactical Situation would be a mistake unless this was the only weapon you had or that it was a stop gap weapon until you could get to a better weapon.
Granted 12 gauge is devastating and 4 or 5 shots from it is formidable… but this is like planning on using a 2 shot Derringer as a defensive weapon. There are better options out there. In every metric there are better options.
That being said. They are still freaking cool and fun… so outside of the Tactical Use spectrum – they are just fine.
Quick Update – There is a Marlin Lever Action in .410… It was produced for a time, dropped, brought back briefly and dropped again. So examples are out there. They are rare and hard to find. I’ve only seen 2 in person. They are cool and could be viable as a Tactical Lever Action Shotgun. But they are only in .410 and that’s also a handicap. But it’s better than harsh language, so there’s that.
Shotguns remain the very best weapon ever devised for static defense situations. Meaning Home Defense or Security. But we’ve seen a trend that has people moving away from the Shotgun in other situations. Such as your Truck Gun or Cruiser Gun. Police have turned to Rifles, and SBR’s are becoming the gun of choice for Truck Guns. And depending on where you are – this might not be a good thing.
The popularity of the AR-15 is unquestioned. It’s become “America’s Rifle”, and by Right, it should be. The AR-15 in it’s Militant Form has been serving the Nation as our Military’s main battle rifle for over 40 years. It’s cool to have an AR-15 and it’s cool to deck out that rifle with all sorts of add-on expensive parts and upgrades and components… and to make it so it doesn’t actually look like an AR anymore. That’s for the Cool Guys… but is it for you? Is a 3,000 dollar rifle what you need to defend the castle? Really? Do you need to reach out to 600 Meters with a glorified .22 magnum? Maybe you do.
When I lived in Vernal, Utah I most certainly could use that range and precision accuracy for defensive use. Maybe. In some Red Dawn Zombie Fantasy. In reality… my actual defensive needs were maybe 50 yards max. That’s 00 Buck range. If I had to extend – realistically I’d only need 200 yards. That’s Slug range. I’m talking Defensive Use… I’m not talking precision sniper Hostage Rescue use. That’s for Police. For my buddies in the Sheriff’s Department with the well zeroed heavy rifles. I can’t justify defensive use 200 yards away.
Reality dictates I need to stop a threat that’s trying to come into my home. And that’s where Joe Biden’s suggestion is actually a good one. Just buy a Shotgun. He was absolutely right. And then he threw that out the window with the two blasts in the air and the shooting through doors thing. But he was right about buying a shotgun.
Remington 870. Mossberg 500. One of those. 18.5″ Barrel. Or if you get one that’s registered as a pistol you can get a 14 barrel for it, like in the photo above. You don’t need a $2,000 Benelli M4… By all means, if you can get one, do it… but the mission is quite resolved with a 400 Pump Action. Avoid the pumps made in Turkey by otherwise well known brands… Don’t cheap out on that brand new $299 pump.
I’d rather buy a well used Remington 870 than anything else… that’s just me.
Get some good 3″ hunting loads for it… not the super cheap #7 or #8 Shot loads… those suck. Get some good loads. And test the shotgun for reliability. If it cycles good, and isn’t knocking you on your tush… you’ve got the weapon you need. NOW the fun part comes in. Now you get to go find all the different 00 Buck Loads you can find. A box or two of each. And find maybe 3 or 4 different Slug Loads. Now go out and find some big boxes like appliances come in. Draw a circle or Tape a paper plate on the box…. several of them. And get to testing.
Patterning your Shotgun is like Zeroing your Rifle. Find the load that your Shotgun likes the best – not the load You like the best. There’s a difference. If your load is giving you a pattern that is empty in the center – that is not your load. You want a nice spread across your impact zone. For the slugs, you want point of aim, point of impact accuracy and consistency. Once you find the loads that your gun likes the best – That’s the ammo you go stock up on.
It’s unbelievable to me that guys will buy a brand new shotgun and then buy a couple cases of the cheap birdshot ammo… and that’s it. If you are buying a gun to go break clays with – fine. But for a shotgun you are going to defend lives with? That’s irresponsible. Take everything you do for gun safety and professionalism – and throw it out the window. Your gun is untested and unzeroed = that’s a NO GO. Yet you do that with your shotgun? That’s a Fail. You need to know how your gun performs with the ammo you are going to use for defense. And seriously #7.5 loads that have Clay Pigeons on the box is NOT your defensive ammo. Or else it shouldnt be. Ever. The smallest you should use for defense in any situation is BB Shot. Even in an Apartment or close packed trailer park. And even then, I’d suggest #4 Buck. The shell should also be “High Brass”. Trap loads have aluminum bases with very short heads… During firing in some guns, that little bit of aluminum will expand out and create a lock ring in your chamber making ejection very difficult or it could jam the gun, requiring some serious pounding to get it unstuck. I’ve seen that in many shotguns using that cheap ammo. You want big pellets and high brass. And quite frankly, the bigger the better. Police agencies across the nation and around the world who use shotguns, use 00 Buck for a reason. Go ask your local Sheriff’s what they recommend for shotguns or what they use. Some may use Regular or #4 Buck… I know some that used to use 000 Buck before switching to rifles. But the great majority use 00 Buck.
When it comes to slugs, you want to use a Brenneke or Foster type slug. Brenneke slugs have a drag device on the back of them… an attached wadding or plastic tail to stabilize the slug. A Foster will generally be rifled and have a hollow base. Either one is suitable for your smooth bore, and will be shockingly accurate if you do your part.
The Slug type to avoid in a smoothbore gun is a SABOT. Oh, I know they look cool as hell. But they require a Rifled Bore. If that’s what you have – by all means… but we’re talking defensive smoothbores here and with those, a SABOT is useless. They will be less stable, less accurate and they are going to tumble in the air before they strike the target and wont perform like a giant hollowpoint bullet. You are wasting your money on those. From all the testing I’ve done with common slug shells… overall the Brenneke type slugs are consistently the most accurate. Especially in the 3″ loads. Your shoulders may want something else. 2 3/4″ Foster type slugs from Winchester or Remington are common and do quite well. Reduced Recoil Tactical Slugs kick a lot less and are just fine out to 100 yards. But buy some different types and try them out.
The shotgun is much more capable than most guys think.