You gotta love Max Brooks for his canonizing so much important information about surviving a zombie uprising.
Unfortunately he is wrong on several things.
Most importantly he is very wrong about Anti-Zombie Weapons. His favorite AZW is the M1 Carbine. The M1 Carbine is indeed a handy weapon, and a true classic. But as an AZW, it’s lacking. The magazine capacity is short and the rounds lack long range punch. Accuracy is decent enough inside 100 yards. All things considered, if you have a 15 round magazine and a pack of fast zombies coming at you inside 100 yards… you are in trouble unless you have something else up your sleeve.
You want capacity, but capacity alone means nothing. Look at the Calico M-100. If Capacity was rule, the Calico would be king. Power is a factor, but so is reliability… really everything goes together here, reliability, accuracy, power, range. The M1 just comes up short.
The other important factor is Ammo Availability. M1 Carbines fire a round called “.30 Carbine” and it’s not exactly cheap anymore, and it’s not exactly plentiful anymore either. The stuff is just too rare.
Now, if you want an M1 Carbine I really can’t fault you. But use it as a backup weapon, vehicle weapon or a weapon for someone in your party that is otherwise occupied, like a radio operator. Kinda like it’s intended purpose. Its for those guys that are not packing a Battle Rifle.
So what is the perfect AZW? Off the cuff a lot of guys are thinking “FNH PS90!” Or P90 if you have the means. The P90/PS90 has a lot going for it. Huge mag capacity. 50 rounds on deck. The rounds are light, relatively quiet, punchy enough for Zed Culling, and they have decent range… going out to 200 yards pretty easily and still making head shots. Remember, head shots are the key. But ammo is once again, going to be limited in supply. When you can find it, great. Stock up. Because not every Mom and Pop gun shop is going to have it.
So where does this leave us? Pretty much back to the good old basics… The AK and the AR-15 platform. Mastery of these more common weapons is going to be an essential skill in a WWZ Scenario. That police roadblock where the Zeds broke through… there is bound to be an AR-15 or two and some ammo. And these weapons have the ability to reach out much further to hit zombies before they come within that critical 100 yard distance. And as good as the AK is, I have to give the edge to the AR-15. New quad stacked magazines double and triple your on board capacity so you can lay down some serious firepower. But even with your standard 30 round mags, you are set up pretty well. Accuracy will allow great Zed Melon Busting capability that will save ammo resources.
Another good weapon of choice is a 9mm Sub-Gun, such as an MP-5, Uzi, Sterling, or the like, and I would favor these over Max’s M1 Carbine. That empty gun shop you come across, it has a better change of having a box of 9mm left around than a box of .30 Carbine. Just saying. And if you can find suppressors, a quite 9mm Sub Gun will allow you to move through Zombie Infested Terrain without attracting the attention of the undead masses.
Other quiet weapons, such as perhaps a bow of some sort… that’s all fine and good if you have plenty of arrows and you are firing from a defensive position such as a roof top. But really, that’s only for passing the time, not really for thinning out a surge of Walkers. Sure it’s fun, but it’s not really getting the job done.
When it comes to mele weapons, big and sturdy are what you want. Light and Fast is fine if your fencing someone playing by the rules. Zombies can’t read the rule book. They forgot how. All they want is to suck the brains of your head through your eye sockets. A good old Baseball Bat trumps Golf Clubs and Hockey Sticks. I mean, sure you can get a wicked swing with that carbon fiber Ping, but the goal is to destroy the Zeds brain. You might get one, but the second one is going to be a lot harder with that broken 5 Iron. Solid wood is where it’s at for wholesale zombie bashing.
Unfortunately if your plan is to go toe-to-toe with the Zeds, you’ve pretty much already lost. At Bad Breath Range, the Zombie has all the advantages. A lack of pain recognition, undead strength, and you still have to destroy the brain. All the Zed has to do is bite you. Once. That’s it. Just a nibble and your a done. This is why we want to keep them 100 yards away or further if you can. Mele Weapons are your last ditch options. That’s when you’ve run out of everything else, escape routes or ammunition.
If a Zed gets in your personal space… and remember, that personal space is 100 yards now… the weapon I suggest is something that can stop that threat right now. Either a Mobility Stop or a Brain Disruption. I’m talking about the shotgun. Rugged, Reliable, Powerful. And with one blast you can drop several Zeds. They are inside 100 yards, so they already know your there, your not hiding anymore. They are coming and they have to be stopped right now. With a little training and a sack of shells, a man armed with a pump action shotgun can lay down a wall of Zed crushing firepower, and keep it up until the Zeds fall at your feet. And if you have to smack one around, the Shotgun stock is still better than a harsh language or a Putter.
So be careful. Zombies are not to be trifled with. You see a Zombie, put it down for good.
I dont have an AR based weapon… yet.
However it is comforting to know I have the rest of the Zed basics down.
One thing that bothered me about Zombieland was that one of the main characters elected to carry a coach gun.
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE mine, but a 2 round arm is WAY less than ideal.
At least you got to see its shortcomings in the movie.
I have had conversations with people who talked about long range sniping of Zeds.
MY personal take is that if they dont notice you… keep quiet.
Even with a suppressor you have the sonic crack to give you away.
From my understanding, and personal thoughts, any zombie fluids are contagious.
Even if you keep them from laying a finger or tooth on you… you have the risk of spatter.
So hand to hand is a no win situation.
Anyone who has had outdoors experience knows how easy it is to shed your own blood, that cut, scrape, scratch… is a doorway to being a Walker.
Eyes, mouth, nose… mucous membranes are also.
Everyone who thinks about going at it gung ho is going to die.
Avoidance will be your best weapon… with the ability of laying down a river of lead if needed a last ditch plan.
Armored vehicles, a hidden fortification away from the populous, avoidance, and the mindset to take as many with you as you can WHEN they get you is what the people will need.
Jim
You are right about the fluids… the 23 Days Later Documentary Film showed this when “The Father” guy looked up and a drop of Zed Juice dropped in his eye. He was instantly Infected and turned with astonishing speed. EyePro is important.
If you are using a suppressor… you can use sub sonic ammo, so there will be no sonic crack… Oddly enough, a “standard” sized 45 is sub sonic, and doesn’t have a sonic crack.
Supressed Ruger 10/22 for ranged work…..pump shotgun and XD 9mm for close-up work….
The issue of Blades. Bigger is truly better. Bowies knives, Kukris, Machetes, Swords. Your little folder, save that for food prep.
Another great one would be the 10/22 that Ruger used to make in 22 mag.
But AK’s also have reliable 75 round drums! 🙂
If I’m limited to Title 1 gear, I’d go with a nice AR, probably a high-end gas piston gun.
Your choice comes down to the age old question…runners or shamblers…runners do require quite a bit more firepower, while shamblers allow more leway in selection of weapon but more time to tactical employment…
Personally, AR for me…
Funny how in his follow on book the primary infantry rifle in the zombie war was a semi auto wood rifle with a large spike bayonet for aimed volley fire at slow moving masses and the melee weapon seemed to be some type of a short halberd or turkish ax type weapon if I remember…..
LWCR R.E.P.R.
Vang Comp 870
FNP 45 Tac.
Cold Steel Two Handed Chinese War Sword.
Kukri
You own none of these weapons.
actually I do; except for the R.E.P.R. and the sword; saving up for those.
Zombie killing on the cheap, the 7.62 X 25 mm Tokarev. Yugo M57 for emergencies, possibly the 35 round semi-auto pistol version of the Polish PPS43 sub gun.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct883.aspx
Where did I put that old slow speed electric tooth brush. If I could just figure out a way to mount a green laser on the M-57. Shotgun for prime. Home made claymores by preference. Mounted high for head hits. I wonder about the effects of flame. Could you got a zombie hot enough quick enough to steam explode his skull? If you burn off muscle tissue you would at least slow them down. The final solution would be some organism that likes to eat zombie virus. We need to spray DC real quick.
From the fine folks at Izhmash, I give you the Saiga .308 with 20 round magazines, and a scope, along with the Saiga 12 with the MD-20 drum for up close.
I’m going AR for sure. As much as I like the AK, knockdown power is not as relevant with Zombies. I’d want something that will allow for precise head shots, high mag capacity, and minimal recoil to ensure quick follow up shots. AR in 5.56 is perfect. Also, as Ogre pointed out, ammo should be plentiful for it. As much as I’d like a 45 or 9mm for any other application, I’d take a reliable .22 pistol for a back up during WWZ. Just something that will allow for quick head shots and have plenty of available ammo. I guess the only downside to a .22 is the ammo can be hit and miss. Okay, I’ll bring a Glock 19 too.
I don’t want to go hand to hand with those things. I’d prefer a shovel but wouldn’t want to carry it.
I am thinking for bad breath range its a Katana sword (lope off arms legs and heads with ease) and/or a roofing hammer. Roofing hammer you say? Ya nearly three feet long, light plastic handle and hardended head and claw for those over the shoulder back strikes when “something” is behind you!! Those, a M4 and chain mail suit made of titanium we are GOOD TO GO!
Well, if I know ahead of time that zombies are coming (they’re slowly spreading from the cities, or somesuch), I’m going to drive over to Saco and “obtain” a Mk19.
A flamethrower would be useful – decontaminates as it kills. Easy enough to cobble together.
Gotta go with a shotgun, for ranged kills (is it actually a “kill,” if they’re already dead?), as the terrain here doesn’t tend to allow for shots over 200 yards, and rarely those, at that. Most aimed fire would be within the 50-75 yard range, to the tree density and hills start to cause problems.
As much as that does sound like a good idea, a flaming zombie is not a very good idea. Even if it does decontaminate the zombie, I (personally) am not 100% sure if the zombie would go down immediately
Ruger 10/22. Lots of 25 round magazines. Done and done.
The problem with a .22 is that skull penetration is not a guaranteed thing, neither is brain destruction. Lots of cases where a .22 deflected off the skull and lots of cases where the .22 slug sunk into the brain, without causing much damage. And then there is no chance of a mobility stop or even slowing with a .22. Not to mention the reliability issue.
A 10/22 would be a great gun to have for small game hunting for food… but not to fight Zeds with.
Here are my proposals:
The AK pattern rifle for less than 100 yards, but more than 50 (for the average shooter). I actually was good enough with my AK to hit a 6″ target at 200yds reliably. But that took two years of practice and knowing my gun-and I burned a TON of ammo and the rifling outta that gun doing it. Besides, the undead get too close (provided you haven’t put a “tacticool” stock on it) you can just CLUB them with the rifle.
For 100+ yards, use an AR pattern rifle and aim for the brain (if they’re THAT type of zombie). Right above the bridge of the nose is the “sweet spot” I’ve heard.
Close in-use a crowbar. Steel/iron is good for swing energy, but heavy to lug around. Titanium is lightweight for ease of carry, but doesn’t offer as much force as a steel/iron model does. Don’t forget-poop hits the fan, have a tool you can carry and use for more than one thing.
By the way, I’m trying to write a zombie Apoc. book right now so opinions and suggestions are welcome.
Go to WeTheArmed.com and look in the Creative Writing Section. There is a thread called “Uprising”. Not to be confused with “Uprising UK” which is the continuation of Uprising.
I’ve read it; Loved it.
The .22 would be great if you were only fighting zeds. However you will also be fighting other people, either crazed cults, raiders or biker gangs. So the stopping power of the AK is still quite important, not to mention the complete and utter reliability of the AK. You don’t want your gun to go *click* with a zed horde coming at you.
I don’t think the .22LR would be good on zeds. You can’t always go for head-shots. With an AK or .308 battle rifle a COM hit would probably at least temporarily drop a zombie, and permanently drop an infected. A pelvis shot is going to keep them from running or shambling toward you.
Then you’ve got the issue of zombies wearing body armor. It’s more than likely that you may run into zombie police, swat, and national guard. That elusive head-shot just became that much harder if your target is wearing a Kevlar helmet.
Even if you do get a head-shot the little round may not penetrate the skull especially from a short barrel. Like a pistol, which since the sight radius is short, you’re going to have a harder time scoring hits with your little plinker until they get close.
Especially when there’s twenty of them, you’re running on very little sleep, your heart rate is through the roof and your body just decided to give you a double shot of adrenaline and endorphins.
Remember we don’t want them to get close, they don’t have any ranged weapons. The zombies must close with us to attack we need to keep them out of the <100 yards zone as much as possible.
One could argue that taking a pistol is a waste of space and weight. You might be better off with more rifle magazines. But then again if your rifle fails and you're on the ground because they got the drop on you a pistol might be a very welcome weapon. Especially if you save the last round for yourself.
Personally, I’d want suppressors on both my rifle and pistol, you certainly don’t want to attract any more attention than you really have to. Of course, one you have to switch to the shotgun, they all pretty much know where you are.
Rifle: My Sig 556 or AR piston with suppressor setting on the gas system that would be quieter than my Sig
Pistol: Glock 23 (of which you’ll find ammo and mags at virtually every police department and sporting goods store)
Shotgun: Mossberg 500 Cruiser in a shoulder scabbard
Close in: a good quality iaido Katana for cutting off heads!
People, people. You have to remember that weapons selection has to be part of an overall strategy. Know your enemy. Know the limitations of you and your equipment. Strategize accordingly. Take a box of your favorite ammo whether it’s 12 gauge shells, a brick of .22 or a box of .223. How much of each can you carry along with your other gear? How many zombies can you engage with your load out before you have to resupply? How fast can you reload that 870/M4/Glock while running for your life? In an urban setting with 1000s of zombies looking for food, a couple of bricks of .22 with a suppressed rifle may serve you much better than a case of 12 gauge. Do you really need to engage a zombie 500 yards away that’s heading for the next town away? Are your skills or your equipment up to minute of cranium accuracy at that range? In a rural setting, the .308 or .223 may be more useful to keep the back 40 clear of your crops. Bottomline, if you are comfortable with it, know how to use it, have thought through your strategy, good for you and good luck. If you’re sitting there with you finger up your nose without a clue, you’ve got work to do. Get busy.
For the record, my load out of choice for mobility would be a good quality polymer, major caliber, striker fired, suppressed combat pistol with 200 rounds for those occasions when you need to enter an unknown building (like to look for food or supplies) and an AR in .223 with as many rounds and mags as I can comfortably carry. My preference here would be either the full size Glock or the S&W M&P in .40 or .45 although I wouldn’t turn my nose up at a 9mm. Point and shoot ease of use and acceptable accuracy in CQB situations. A thought here would be to carry a backup pistol in an alternate caliber. An extra polymer pistol with a few extra mags only adds a couple of pounds to your load out, but it might come in handy if you run out of your basic load out and stumble across someone less lucky who had a different caliber choice in mind. Check the LEO agencies in your area to see what they carry. Make your primary gun compatible with the majority of agencies and your back up compatible with the runner up and you shouldn’t have trouble rearming or topping off your load out as need arises. I’m seeing more LEO agencies in my area switching from shotguns to M4 variants as their long gun of choice making the .223 the logical choice for longer range engagement as necessary.
For point defense of home base, I would still keep the polymer pistol on my hip as a last resort gun. I would keep an 870 12 gauge handy for inside the house distances. 00 buck will take care of most anything poking in through windows and doors. The weight of the shells to be carried isn’t as much of a concern in this scenario as you can have a pallet of the stuff in the middle of the floor and “New York” reloads ready to go for resupply as needed. The center piece of the point defense system would be a sniper rifle though. Nothing should come within a 1000 yards of home base without showing signs of intelligence. A .50 BMG would be nice, but rounds are hard to come by for most of us. A good quality .308 with a suppressor is a good alternative in my opinion. Plentiful enough to stock up and practice with regularly. Powerful enough for a one shot kill. Accurate enough to make it happen at 1000 yards. The suppressor may not be able to quiet the bullet’s sonic crack, but it can help with disguising the source of the bullet.
Your experience may vary.
So, you dismiss the M-1 Carbine largely because of lack of capacity yet recommend something with half the capacity and takes longer to reload?
As far as ammo availability, 12 gauge 00 is not really cheaper, and besides, who needs to “find” ammo when you can carry ten times the round-count.
Interestingly, during the great Obama ammo run (you know, last year), the non-military calibers were generally in stock, while .223, .308, 9mm, etc weren’t. So, I would recommend making sure there’s a .243 or something in the back of the closet, just to be sure.
The 12 gauge isn’t really slower to load if you practice, and it has a lot more power. Something the M1 Carbine lacks. Raw Horsepower can make up a lot of handicaps in other areas.
Really? So you’re telling me that you can put in 15 shotgun shells into your (non-Saiga) 12 gauge in the same amount of time I can reload one mag in my carbine?
If you have to put a disclaimer in, that’s an obvious indication the Saiga is the solution to any perceived problem with speed of reloading a shotgun. No fair comparing a military grade detachable magazine fed carbine with a tube magazine fed shotgun, that’s just a mildly modified hunting gun. Apples to apples, and all of that. Although that being said, with practice you can keep up a perfectly adequate rate of fire with a tube gun feeding single shots from a side saddle and/or bandolier once the magazine is exhausted. A good hand with a Saiga will still eat his lunch, but only as long as his pre-loaded magazines last.
And that’s not even taking into account the power difference. What’s the point of being able to carry gobs of ammo for your M1 carbine or AR, if you have to expend several rounds to get a reliable stop?
So you’ve never seen me, or Larry Correia do a reload. That’s fine. Maybe you should look up the YouTube vid of Jessie Abbate doing her shotgun reload. Shows that you don’t have to top off the mag to shoot quick.
The fact that a 12 gauge sabot slug… or a Brenneke Black Magic… will stop the BG hiding on the other side of your average house.
Jim
My advice would have to be a select fire M14/M1A rifle. No mater how much ammo you carry, if you are gung-hoing it, full auto, slaying the Zeds, you will run out of ammo faster than a person shooting accurate fire with a 7.62×51 round. A down side to the M14 rifle would be the weight of the gun, along with how long it is.
It should probably be assigned to someone skilled in marksmanship, and a guard. If your 5 man squad needs to go in an apartment, someone should be guarding the door. That way, if the Zeds start showing up, he or she could hopefully keep them off long enough to give the search team time to extract, and get out of dodge.
Max Brooks does have one point, and remember, I try to look at all possibilities, in the fact of what if the only thing that puts a Zed down is a brainshot? What if your support gunner, using an M60 LMG, or a M240 Bravo, and is only cutting the majoraty in half? Sure, they might get a brainshot here and there, but if Brooks is right, and your SAW Gunner is making them crawlers, then Brooks is indeed correct, you will have a harder to hit target.
Another thing I believe Brooks is onto, while not directly stated, is the avoidance of the coast line. A panic of the walking dead would have people seeking shelter on the ocean. People will be wearing life jackets, and some of those people will be infected. If they are swimming away already, they will soon become a floating zombie. Then…Well, the water is now a bad place to go. Also, those that have power will use it over the weak, and piracy will become a very dominant threat. When they attack, they might even leave a captured zombie on the ship, to whip out survivors.
My own idea is a very cruel thing. I apologize if it offends anyone.
During the ZA, survival is, obviously, a key thing. If you have a group of people that brought their family along, they better be able to fend for themselves. That means anyone too old to shoot, or cook, do anything productive, will be executed. Kids under the age of 5 will also be executed, or the family must leave. Why the age of 5? Kids of the age of 4 and down need to be watched. Even then, I wouldn’t give them a gun, except for when the whole party is on the move, and leave them on cleaning duty. People physically and or mentally handicapped must be executed. Physically though, would have to be missing limbs, crippled legs with no wheelchair, and if they have a wheelchair, but can move on their own, the can be spared.
To keep order, discipline must be firm, but not overly cruel. Crimes in your own group must be harsh but fair. Say someone tries to take control of the group from you. A clean headshot. The family of the person would then be forced to leave, with a weeks food and water, their own gun, and two clips for it.
Back to weaponry, a bayonet on that M14 would turn it into a lance. A melee weapon, I would suggest a one hand long sword. If that is available, a good shield would also be great, preferably metal over whatever the riot shields are made from. A large tower shield would be great. Or, go Spartan style, find a narrow place to defend, and put up a wall of shield men with pistols and lance’s. A great pistol, in my opinion, would be the Colt M1911.45 ACP. Relatively common ammo, with decent stopping power.
That is part of my over all ZSG.
If you like the M-14, you will love Uprising. An M-14 Sage EBR gets much use.
Just because I said the M-14 would be a possible ideal gun, does not mean I like it… Truth is, I kind of love it, if only because of Randy Shughart. And I do under stand the EBR stock, and yes, it does shorten the gun some, probably even lowers the weight. But I am not a big fan of it, don’t like the pistol grip on the rifle. Sure, if i can get my hands on it, I would probably use it, but I would not mind not finding an EBR stock.
I’m seeing some pretty strange opinions on here, so let me just tell you what I think in regards of firearm caliber. (with a rating out of 10)
9×19 Parabellum – Low recoil round and pretty common too, but not much stopping power. 7/10
.45 ACP – Medium amount of recoil and a shit ton of stopping power. (9/10)
.22 – Very low recoil, but ridiculously under powered. Skull penetration is inconsistent, the long range stopping power is non-existent (especially coming from a carbine or other short barreled firearm) 5/10
5.56 / .223 – Medium to low recoil, and rather plentiful. With a good long range accuracy (due to the low recoil) and decent stopping power, this is one of the better rifle cartridges. 9/10
7.62×51 / .308 – Medium recoil, plentiful supply, great accuracy when fired semi-auto, and usable with either the M14, or the Saiga .308. 9/10
7.62×39 – High recoil, high stopping power. Common and reliable. The only fault with it is its accuracy diminishing recoil.
(Keep in mind that this is not my complete view of thing, more like a summary. I have a LOT more to say on this subject, as well as others (EX: Different firearms, melee weapons, and proper ZA clothing. ) I just can’t be bothered right now to type it all out.)
Thomas you are a relationship Ninja Master my friend. Awesome advice!