On AAR the topic of Drones came up. The use of drones for harassment, spying, and creeper pics.
I said my solution would be to shoot them down. If I’m on private property and a drone flies over, I believe this constitutes trespassing and spying. I believe I have the right to swat down the drone.
Now I’m not talking about high altitude Predators or Reapers… and neither were we on Air. We’re talking about the small QuadRotor types.
My first response on air was “Federal Black Cloud 3 1/2″”. A good shotgun shell for knocking a goose down. I thing it would knock a drone down too.
Trespass, invasion of privacy, spying, harassment, these are not things that have to be tolerated on your private property.
I see the use of them for honest reasons in law enforcement. But it needs to be done in accordance with the law. Warrants need to be had before they can come into a property and search… same rules should be in place for the use of drones. Also LE Drones should be marked clearly.
I can see the warrantless use over private property in some cases… fleeing criminal suspect… an active search and rescue of a missing person or amber alert. Or other extraordinary circumstances where the use is reasonably prudent to save a life. IE, you hear screaming or other sounds that lead you to believe a human life is in jeopardy.
Note: Corporate Espionage is a big business. Spying is a real and a growing problem.
Let’s say I sign an NDA with a gun company so I can test out a prototype weapon. I’m at a secure location, and have an expectation of privacy. A drone flies over and snaps pics of me and this weapon. Next thing you know the prototype is now on TV and I’m liable for breaking the NDA.
How many spy photos have you seen in car magazines?
The use of drones are going to cause problems that are going to have to be addressed in court.
I certainly agree that there are going to be trials and legal battles over this.
As of right now the most appropriate precedent I can think of is the fact that anything above 500′ is considered publicly navigable airspace in the US. While a drone flying 500’+ AGL might be in violation of other laws it wouldn’t be in “your” airspace and therefore shooting it down would still be illegal.
Legal considerations aside, isn’t the maximum range of birdshot something like a couple hundred yards? Hobbyist drones (AKA RC planes) can easily fly above that. And a good camera should have no problem coping with that distance.
Sadly I think we’re fighting a losing battle…
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/91.119
Only minimum altitudes that a pilot is obligated to heed is 500 feet from any person, building, or vessel in sparsely populated areas. or 1000 feet above anything within 2000 feet. That means I can fly 10 feet over your field as long as I did not bust the 500 foot bubble from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure I am legal. If I do violate that distance it is an FAA civil matter (ie non criminal)
[ (d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface–
This is even more cogent.
There have been several cases where the “discovery” of illegal activity from the air was admissible without a warrant, just as it is admissible if that illegal activity is visible from the sidewalk adjacent to your building.
Unfortunately, the courts have already ruled on this. Just see how helicopters can be used, and it will apply to drones. So, my recommendation is to shoot in a private indoor range, if you don’t want pictures taken.
Courts have also ruled in favor of privacy.
Take a look at Federal’s PHC120 “Coyote” load. 1.5 oz of heavier-than-lead alloy BB in the flight follower wad. Should make for impressive range, pattern, penetration, etc.
I can’t speak to that as I’ve tried it.
Try a max effective range of 60 yards with goose loads, and thats being extremely optimistic. I have hammered geese at as little as 20 yards and not knocked them down. The problem with goose loads is that they are steel shot per federal law. Stick with lead shot, and be realistic in your expectations. If a drone spy is stupid enough to fly down and buzz you, then swat it out of the air. Otherwise you will be better off tracking the pilot down and having a “polite conversation”.
Black Cloud BBC Shot would work. Drones are very delicate.
I’m sensing the need for a YouTube video regarding some testing of this subject. Isn’t fps Russia in your neck of the woods now? A nice little co-op video with the ground finally of an Ogre beat down on a fake soviet. 😉
Electronic countermeasures are more likely to be effective. Jam up the control signal. Even if it has a rudimentary onboard system that allows it to land itself, odds are you can track it down as it does so. If it’s still intact, you can find out who was spying on you, and respond appropriately – catching it “in the act” is going to be pretty strong evidence in court…
“I can’t speak to that as I’ve tried it.” Wait, What?
I’m with you. If it flies, it dies. Tracer rounds would be more fun and would increase your range. (Assuming you’re not in Suburbia)
Never mind the privacy issue which is serious, just the annoyance factor should be justification enough for those wanting to pursue in the courts.
Despite what TMZ says, they will own a fleet in the next 10 years following people and showing the footage 24/7. So yeah, this will be challenged in the courts.
I’m concerned about the PD use of these. Ogden PD already has one up in the sky monitoring activity for crime prevention. Which is another way of saying curtailing individual privacy rights and another loss of freedom.
I don’t buy the helicopter analogy. PD helicopters are mission specific. Mainly because of cost and risk. Drones can be deployed 24/7 for general surveillance activity, which is more akin to having cameras installed in every street lamp post recording your every move.
Drone Bait
And don’t forget the black boxes O wants installed on all cars in the US to determine “fair” “road taxs” and oh ya just happen to track your every move in a vehicle, possibly in real time…Nice Republic ya got there. Shame if anything happened to it….
Drones for drones. I can pick up a fairly high performance remote control airplane for a 150 at Hobby Lobby. That is a fair price to pay if I wanted to drop the nosy neighbors toy.
One great thing about the antidrone concept, is that you’ll avoid entanglement in firearm discharge (within city limits, etc) laws. And honestly, a $150 disposable R/C airplane is still less expensive than getting a good shotgun confiscated, to say nothing of lawyers, fines, etc.
2.4 Ghz jamming would shut down most of the uplink/downlink on the commonly available systems that I have seen. Even the .gov versions used to use this though I would hope they have gotten smarter since the Iraqis were intercepting this off of the Preds.
This would work:
http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/y2000-quad.html
But I imagine the smaller, hand held units from Japan would work if you could get them close enough. RC plane with a different freq, carying 2.4 jammer, fly close till bad drone hits the dirt?
Not as sexy as downing one with an over/under though.