The Government Bureaucracy In Action

My wife’s Driver’s License expired.  So she goes to the DMV to get a new NC card.

But she can’t.  Because she needs a Marriage Certificate to show she’s married to me… from 21 years ago never before required.  Fine.  We contact the state of Utah and get it.

She goes in again.   No, she still can’t.  Now she has to have a social security card with the name changed on it… again, never required before in 21 years of marriage.  With moving to Idaho and Virginia and back to Utah… Required now.

So we go to the social security office in New Bern.  They shut the door on us… office closed.

So she goes back again to change her name.   But she can’t.   Because her Utah license is expired.  Birth Certificates and Marriage Licenses and all that doesn’t matter.   “If you contact the hospital and have the lady at the counter sign it in ink and then…”  How is that a more valid form of ID than a Utah Drivers License that went past an arbitrary date?  She is no longer the same person she was a month before?  What the hell, People?

She’s in a NO WIN situation because of the goddamn government.    She is now expected to fly all the way back out to Utah, renew her Driver’s License there, so she can fly back here, just so she can get a North Carolina license.   She called me from the social security office in tears from the frustration.  I’m so angry I could chew nails and spit tacks.   This is ridiculous.  Even more so because an illegal immigrant gets treated better… pisses me slam off.


UPDATE:   Oh get this… Now we’ve been told that she can get a Doctor’s form… with DOB on it, signed in ink… Which is laughable because you don’t need an ID to see a Doctor.  OR you can have your church print out something that has your name and DOB on it, and a Church Official signs it. In ink of course, and that’s valid.   Again, laughable.  Because they don’t know who in the hell the Doctor is or the Church Official.   And you don’t need an ID to go to Church (yet) so how is that a valid anything?   Yet that is more valid than a DL, which required everything in the first place that had only just recently expired.

Even more laughable… All of these other documents can be created at home with a computer and some photoshop.   It worked for Obama!  But what you couldn’t just recreate though is a Utah Driver’s License.   I could in fact, legally, start my own “Church” and then generate this document and sign it and stamp it and it would be LEGAL.

All this to get a Social Security Card to be used as ID… When it freaking says on the card “NOT FOR USE AS ID“.

WTF is WRONG with this picture?   EVERYTHING.  This is all such utter bullshit.  So instead of helping the person trying to comply with the law… the system is forcing people to find the loopholes to get around the law.   This is insanity.


39 thoughts on “The Government Bureaucracy In Action”

  1. And there are reasonably-good odds that it’s not even a law – it’s a “policy” that some unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat invented.

  2. Blame something called Real ID passed by congress around 2005ish. It established natl standards for state DLs…which critics argue became a defacto natl ID. Some states jumped on board enthusiastically (NC & VA) others resisted (UT & MA). Fed of course used funding to coerce states to comply. Another War of Terror measure.

    Why do I know these things? Was posted overseas 7 yrs straight and our DLs expired. Upon posting to VA, my wife could not get a VA DL because she never changed her surname to mine 20 yrs ago, despite her mil ID and US passport using my surname. (warning! …utter nothing resembling ‘told ya so’…it’s…counterproductive). Had to change her name with social security officially before VA would budge (despite fact(?) your SSN is not supposed to be used for ID purposes?). We worked it out eventually but know your exasperation/anger well.

    1. Real ID and in 2009 the Department of Homeland Security took over things… All of which means more Government, which means more bullshit.

      1. Keep in mind ogre, this was for something relatively routine and simple, something that realistically should take minutes. Imagine being a business owner, or needing a complex license for a trade or service for renewal, as terrible as your situation is, it is the very tip of the ice berg, I can tell you some real horror stories.

        1. Oh, I know… Which is why I didn’t start any of the 3 businesses that I could have. The Government basically made it impossible.

  3. As much as I sympathize, don’t let your drivers license expire. Blaming the government is just deflection.

    1. The whole thing is just a scam to allow the government to generate revenue and hassle citizens. Even if one buys into the “we need to make sure drivers are safe” argument (which is nonsense, given how low the standards are – most drivers on the road are “unsafe”), that would argue for a lifetime license, not one that has to be renewed periodically. /That/ just serves to hassle folks who have actual lives to live.

      If my company can bill me out for $1500 per day, then taking a day off to go renew a license does not just cost me the $50 renewal fee – it costs the company $1500 every five years. That’s $300 per year, per employee, that the company just has to eat – except that companies aren’t governments, so they can’t just print money, which means that the customers have to pay that.

      How much more do we pay for goods and services, just to pay these consequential costs relating to bureaucracy? Some estimate it’s on the order of 20% of our net income.

      The results of ridiculous, un-American laws are the responsibility of those who made those laws, not those who did not comply, or complied imperfectly.

      1. One of the reasons I like my Arizona DL. Doesn’t expire until 2027. If I recall correctly you get your license at like 15 1/2, renew when you turn 21 and then renew again when you are 65.

    2. Glenn, that sounds like a comment from a Fed or State worker defending the indefensible.
      Name a private enterprise that doesn’t rely on govt funding that would last 30 days with such shoddy business practices?

    3. I’ve always found it interesting that the state requires us to be tested and licensed to drive a car, but any two smucks can have as many kids as they can and no one seems to care.

      Renewing your DL is just an excuse to force you to pay another tax. You should have to pay for your periodical driving test and the license should be free.

    4. Lol, true. George, if it was easy to bypass everyone would do it. Have her get a Matricular Card, lol, i hear they are quite popular.

    5. This whole drivers license business is more bureaucratic nonsense than anything else. First of all, you don’t even need to demonstrate an ability to drive to get one in most states. Secondly in New Mexico – and last I knew Utah – you don’t even need to demonstrate that you are legally in the country to get one. You could be Raul the drug man from Juarez and walk in to the motor vehicle office and demand that you get a DL with no questions asked. And yet the stupid thing is laughably supposed to be taken as a serious document and form of ID and you are supposed to be absolutely certain that you never allow it to expire – not even for one day and blah, blah, blah! Absolute bullshit!

  4. Your wife can not fly as she has no valid ID. TSA will not let her. She needs to go online and find out how other women handled this. Your wife is not first nor will she be the last.
    Ladies if you get married and want to use your husbands last name, get your social security card and DL changed ASAP. Passport also if you have one.

  5. Georgia is like this too. It was called something like verified id or something to give the impression of security. Passed on the backs of attempting to foil illegals. Does it work? I don’t know. Honestly, most illegals I’ve heard of don’t have insurance on their cars so I don’t think they’ll be detoured from getting licenses. It makes it ridiculous to get anything done.

    We have to have: 2 proofs of residency, SS card, Original birth certificate. I also assume my wife will need Marriage Certificate.

    So they take all those important papers and scan them and send them off. Then your super secure id/license arrives in the mail in 5 weeks. So not only are they duplicating your information that could fall into the wrong hands… But then they are MAILING this to you so anyone could grab it out of your mailbox. Real secure.

    We need to go back to common sense. In our haste to correct our problems, we have created hoop after hoop that ordinary citizens jump through. And the laws we create only apply to us who follow them.

  6. just have her speak in broken english and tell them she has never had a license. Might also help if she mentioned she wanted to register vote democrat, they will expedite it.

  7. The last time I went to renew my NJ drivers license, the MVC would not accept my “non-digital” expiring license as valid because they could not verify its authenticity. That’s right, they could not verify the authenticity of the license they issued.

    I kindly questioned the woman at the counter as to whether I was confused. From what I understood, my non-digital license and FID card could be used to purchase a rifle/shotgun and a case of ammo at the sporting goods store 2 blocks away but was not good enough to renew my license.

    Needless to say officer standing at the door became a little nervous.

  8. My brother is going through this very problem right now. He can’t renew his expired UT driver’s licence without his birth certificate from AZ. Okay, no problem. So he calls AZ to get one, and they tell him he can’t get a birth certificate without a valid driver’s license. So he’s basically screwed.

    I think the government is doing this shit to us on purpose. It’s the only explanation that makes any sense.

  9. I think the answer to “why” the govt. does this is in some of the replies…

    “[]don’t let your drivers license expire.” and “Ladies if you get married and want to use your husbands last name, get your social security card and DL changed ASAP. Passport also if you have one”

    You are being trained to comply with government orders, within the timeframe and in the precise manner that they require. Follow instructions to the letter, and everything will go well for you. Deviate a bit, and you are going to suffer entirely disproportionately to your offense.

    Soon enough everyone will fall in line.

    1. OK Brain, it is not a matter of falling in line. It is the reality of the way things are. I don’t like it either. Without a “valid” ID/DL you don’t exist. My own son has had such problems. He was born in Viet Nam and has to prove he is an American citizen all the time. His mother and I were not legally married when he was born so he has a Vietnamese family name. In the far east the family name comes first so I just put my family name last and never used his Vietnamese name for his social security card or enrollment in school or on tax returns. No problem until the last few years. It took about two years but I think he has it straightened out now.
      YOU, get back in line NOW!

  10. George, I can understand you & your wife’s frustration. Have you tried to renew her license by mail or even online?

  11. Have you explored all the possible alternatives?

    Even an expired passport is still a valid ID for many purposes, including proof of citizenship, and maybe driver’s license.

    Ask for the complete list of acceptable ID’s at the DMV, and see if you have any of them.

  12. I am a employed by a well known national North American Department of Defense. To get an ID card from a Contractor Plant I needed a state driver’s license (DoD Common Access Cards cannot be copied) and a certified copy of my Birth Certificate. Oh the Joys of working at an Airport! Amazing solution to a problem, isolating the site for the new production hanger from the airport so construction crews can enter without actually entering..
    Pardon me I have to leave early because I have a small hatchback which is easy to search to meet the “random” search of vehicles requirement.
    Who is endorsing the Heinlein solution to attacks, arm everybody, pay bounty.

  13. Remember that PM I sent you on WTA, back a couple of months ago?…….Yeah, I tried to warn you about NCDMV ( and NC altogether)…..These F-ed up non sense regulations are what happens when the Democratic party has control over NC for over 70 years.

  14. If it’s any consolation (and I know it isn’t) the NC DMV has been f’ed up for a very long time. Having a third party purchase a car in NY in my name and title it here in NC after it was driven down was a nightmare involving power of attorney, forms signed in triplicate, extra fees and taxes and a live phone conversation between DMV officials, myself and the seller. And that was all due to NC. As far as NY was concerned, they issue a transfer title and everything is good to go. And that was 10 years ago. I’m sure it’s only gotten worse.

  15. Quick fix. Go online. Become an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church. Create your own letterhead. Sign off as a church official.

    (Now for some fun) If we had National ID Cards, this would not have happened….

  16. Your license expiring won’t save you from the black hole of the DMV. When my wife and I moved to SC, where I grew up, we had a very similar situation. My SC license was easily obtained, since I was previously in the system. My wife’s, on the other hand, was not. She already had been issued three previous licenses from 3 states, all with her married name. If I recall, only the state where we began our married life required to see that marriage license.

    When we went to the SC DMV to get her a new state driver’s license, the lady at the window stated she needed to see the marriage license, even though my wife had her SS card, her Louisiana driver’s license, and her passport. From my seat, I could see my wife becoming flustered, so I went up to see what the issue was. Hearing the request for the marriage license, I pointed out to the kind lady behind the counter that, since we had in our possession 3 separate documents with my wife’s married name on them, basic reasoning would lead a person to assume the marriage license existed.

    She then told me flatly that she absolutely must see a marriage license. I told her it wouldn’t matter, and then explained that, since she was refusing to believe the validity of a document issued in the State of Louisiana, why would she recognize another?

    Of course, even speaking with the site manager proved fruitless, and, after a week or so, with a new copy of our marriage license in hand, we went back to the DMV. The lady behind the counter, casually read over the document, said “OK”, and promptly issued my wife her new SC driver’s license. I was almost arrested when I called the manager over and told her, in a loud enough voice to be heard, “If you incompetents would take a basic course in reasoning, you could save the entire state an untold amount of time and money.” She called the State Trooper over and had him escort me from the building. The applause I got was worth the hassle.

  17. Sigh. Ad hominen attacks for stating the obvious. To the idiots making inane comments, I went through the same bullshit with my wife, who just couldn’t decide which way to spell her name (she is Korean). When it came time to renew her expired passport, her stupidity came back to bite her because nothing she had as ID matched. The answer is, don’t let things get to the point where you have to jump through hoops to do the most basic shit. Your stupidity or lackadaisical attitude is at fault.

    1. That makes no sense. An expired driver’s license is just as much an identifying document as a current one. It serves that purpose pefectly well – it’s simply no good for driving.

      Refusing to accept it us just spiteful nonsense on the part of the government. It’s not the driver’s fault that bureaucrats are spiteful scumbags.

      1. Banks will accept an expired DL because it is not Valid. The Real ID Act needs to be repealed. In the meanwhile let’s monkey wrench the system as much as we can.

        1. Banks can be funny. A friend of mine is the pastor of a local church. His town doesn’t want to recognize his church, despite the fact that it is a pretty basic non-denominational Christian church with no funny stuff about it, simply because it’s located at a fairly-valuable address and they want the property taxes.

          So, he applies for the property tax exemption, and they reply with a letter stating that they don’t consider it to really be a church.

          He also needs a bank account for the church, and the bank needs some documentation in order to open the account. The only readily-available document with the church’s name on it was that letter, so he hands it to the bank. Based upon a letter stating, “your church isn’t real,” they opened an account for the church.

          Real ID has been nullified in a number of states. The Feds can’t stand the idea of non-compliance, so they keep pushing back the deadline. They’ve been doing so for years, because they know that a lot of states flat-out won’t comply, that they have absolutely no way to force compliance, and that it would open the flood-gates to all sorts of other nullification initiatives once folks realized that it works. So the Feds prevent from “working” by “graciously” extending the deadline each time it approaches.

  18. I know of someone who used the DL to get a library card which they than used as a second ID to renew the DL. This happened several years ago so it appears that bureaucracy is now simply perfecting the annoyances they have always loved.

    1. Some will. I’ve carried an expired license when I knew I was going to be working in crawlspaces or over pits, or other places where I could potentially lose my wallet. I’ve never had a bank refuse to take an expired license for ID.

  19. So my Florida-issued drivers license was about to expire, looked online for all required proof of identification and I headed down to the local office to renew. Upon entering I see a line about 15 yards long and get in it. 37 minutes later I get to the front and see a DMV assistant. I advise that my DL is expiring and that I need to renew. She takes my original FL DL and military ID, and starts the process. Ten seconds into the process she says “You cannot renew your license as there is a problem with your Social Security number.”

    I asked what my Social Security (SS) number had to do with my DL, and she said again “There’s a problem with it.” I said “Please look at the military ID I gave you, it has my correct Social Security number on it.” She said that it didn’t matter, and there was a “problem” with my Social Security number and that I had to go to the local office of the Social Security Administration (SSA) to get it straightened out. Once again, I asked what the problem was, so that WHEN I went to the SSA, I would be able to tell them what THEIR problem was. She would NOT tell me what the problem was! I asked to speak to a Supervisor, and a tall man came over and I asked him WHAT the problem was with MY SS number, and what did it have to do with my DL. He looked at the computer screen and said “There’s a problem that you need to fix.”

    In life, like when raising children, you have to use analogies to assist people in understanding things that they do not quite grasp. In this case, I used an analogy to assist the DMV Supervisor in his misunderstanding of the DMV’s point. I asked the supervisor if he had a car, and he said yes. I then said, “What if you went to a mechanic with a engine problem. Then the service writer told you that you have a problem with your tires, and YOU have to go get the tires fixed BEFORE they’ll work on your ENGINE?” You ask the mechanic “What do my tires have to do with my ENGINE?” The mechanic will not tell you what the tire malfunction is, nor what the correlation is to your engine. Do you think that would be a problem, I asked the supervisor?

    He put his right palm on his chin, looking like he was DEEP in thought. You could tell that this analogy had stumped him. You could also tell that about ten other people, both customers and DMV workers were now listening to this interesting conversation. At this point you’re probably thinking that common sense overtook him, and that the analogy had its desired effect. You would be WRONG. Calmly, he handed me back my DL and military ID, advised me that the local SSA office was six miles away and that I needed to go there to get MY problem resolved. I asked him about the analogy, and if it made sense to him. He said that it didn’t matter. I knew then that his intellect was compromised, as well as the other DMV workers. But what was I to do? I needed my DL to transport myself around the nation! I used the power of the internet. I knew that the FL DMV had recently began a program where you could go online and renew from their website. So I did. I visited the online DMV site and filled out the required info, paid a small fee, and in seven days had a renewed license! So then WHAT ever happened to the SS number problem? I do not know, but it just shows the shear jack-assery of the FL DMV.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *