My disagreement with Grant Cunningham and Rob Pincus…

My disagreement with Grant Cunningham and Rob Pincus regarding the Beretta 92FS.

I checked out a podcast that Rob Pincus was guesting on not too long ago.  The question was asked “What gun do you hate when they show up at your courses” or something along those lines… I forget, it’s been awhile since I heard the podcast.  Rob’s answer was “The Beretta 92”.   Now, I respect Rob a great deal, and while we differ in opinion on something, I always respect his opinions and positions because he always has a well reasoned explanation for them.   

Rob tends to not like the Beretta because it’s large and heavy for it’s caliber… it is.  It has an old fasioned DA/SA Trigger mechanism… it does.  And it has an upside down, slide mounted safety lever.  Yup.  It has that too.  This is a trifecta of good reasons not to like the Beretta.  Rob is a believer in consistency, and a good consistent and simple trigger mechanism as in a modern striker fired pistol gives the shooter some advantage… Yes, that’s true too.
But I still disagree with him regarding the Beretta 92.   More on my rationalizations later.
This morning I read an article by Grant Cunningham on why the Beretta 92 is an inefficient handgun for defense.  And now I’m like “Oh come on.”  I like Grant, and respect his opinions as well.  However, I disagree with him on the Beretta 92.

“When you need to use your handgun, it should ideally come out of the holster in a ready-to-fire condition without you needing to do anything extra before pulling the trigger.”

I agree, Grant.  And here is what I do…  When I holster the Beretta, I then flick the weapon Off Safe.  The Beretta is certainly safe to be carried in such a manner.  Because in order to fire, the trigger must be pulled all the way to the rear to move the rather large and over-sized firing-pin block up and out of the way of the firing pin.  Also, the trigger being pulled to the rear moves the hammer back against spring tension, into the firing position before it can be released to fly forward to hit the firing pin.  These things are not going to happen on their own if the weapon is riding in any holster of half decent quality.   Anything that could impact your holstered weapon hard enough to cause a discharge… Well, you’ve either been hit by an RPG or rapidly moving Osh-Kosh built M-ATV armored truck.  Either way, you’ve got bigger problems to worry about than the risk of a 9mm wound in the leg.

As far as DA/SA trigger pulls go.  This is a training issue.  I’ve seen many shooters running DA/SA guns, do so with great skill and with great results.  SIG’s, HK’s, CZ’s, S&W’s, and most self loading guns that are not 1911’s or Striker Fired Polyguns are in fact DA/SA guns.  A shooter can and will get used to the trigger mechanism if they will actually get out to the range and fire their weapons once in awhile and practice with them.

Here’s the thing that the DA/SA guns have over most of these Striker Guns… That SA pull.  I’ve fired some DA/SA guns with triggers so good it makes you want to go slap Gaston.  Even with my tricked out Glock trigger, which is really dang good… It’s not as good as the SA pull on my Beretta 92.  It just isn’t.  Because mechanically all that trigger has to do is release the hammer.  In the Glock and M&P, the trigger still has to pull that striker back just a little more before it can release.  This gives it just a bit more take up… a little longer… just not quite there where a good SIG or Beretta or CZ trigger can be.  I won’t say HK, because they have triggers like toggle switches, but that’s because the Germans believe in Corporal Mortification or something… I don’t know.
But back to the Off Safe Carry, the process is simple.  After firing, you decock and safe the weapon, holster safely, and then flick the weapon off safe.  Done.  The most dangerous moment in handling the weapon is when holstering.  And holstering a decocked Beretta 92FS is probably the safest gun you could ease into any holster.  It doesn’t get safer.  The trigger is disconnected and the firing pin transfer is rotated 90 degrees away from the firing pin.  There is no way a round could go off in this condition.  No matter how sloppy your reholstering is.  Once safely nestled in it’s holster and everything is good… *Flick*  Your weapon is now read for a rapid draw and fire without worrying about an external safety.

This method is not new or unique by any means.  I know many Military Personnel who carry in this manner and are trained to carry in this manner.  It’s safe and efficient and requires very little training to get used to doing.  1 day at the range.  That’s it.  Drill the motions for awhile, and then reinforce throughout a day of shooting… pretty much done.  This is not solving a Rubik’s Cube.  Give the Students more credit.    Many who detract the Beretta’s mechanics make allowances for the 1911’s.  Yet the Beretta has a couple distinct advantages.  One, the Beretta’s safety when carried Off Safe is only manipulated after the fact.  When everything is cooling back down and the gunshots are still ringing in your ears and your getting your breathing back into control… your checking yourself and following your training and thinking again.  The 1911’s safety is manipulated in the heat of the “Oh Shit” moment when you “Skin Leather” and all your thinking about is that Treat Target that’s closing that 21 Foot Rule distance like a Saber Toothed Cheetah.  It’s in that moment with a 1911 that you have to remember to sweep the lever Off Safe.  Easier putting it on when reholstering than taking it off when drawing.  See my point?  Two, the other big advantage with Beretta is that I can load and unload the weapon, press check, and do whatever in need to with the Safety On.  With the 1911, any slide movement has to be done with the safety off.  And since you are gripping the weapon when doing it, you most likely also have the secondary grip safety disengaged as well.  How many 1911 Operators out there have a 5 Gallon Bucket of Sand they use for Clearing and Loading in their home?  Not many? Who’s safer?  Advantage Beretta.  I’m not saying a 1911 is unsafe here.  But if we are boiling down Shooters as  thick headed cavemen, I think I’d much rather see the students with a Beretta than a 1911.  Personally I do cringe when students bring 1911’s shorter than 4 inches… but that’s because those guns are going to be jamming like a jazz band before the end of the day.  And I’m saying this as a guy that loves 1911’s.  But it’s an Aficionado’s gun.  An Expert’s gun.

The gun is large and doesn’t fit everyone.   True.  But if I am buying the gun for myself and it fits me, then why the hell do I care if it might not fit someone else?  This is my gun.  Don’t “What If” unlikely scenarios that support your throwing your weapon to a small handed partner to support your argument.  Leave such moves for the next Die Hard movie.   Sure the 92 is a large pistol.  My hands are not all that large, and it fits me.  I can shoot the Beretta quite well.  And I enjoy doing so… Because evidently shooting the same gun that has served both Military and Law Enforcement roles around the world for the last 30 years is something again to grinding your own flour and baking your own bread these days.  Quaint and rustic.  Like rolling down a car’s window with a crank.
Here’s the deal… The 92FS/M9 pistol is a fantastic handgun.  It’s battle proven around the globe. It’s both accurate and reliable, and has proven to be more accurate and reliable than most. It’s passed all the tests and it’s leaped all the tall buildings and it’s still serving strong.  It’s one of the very best handguns in the world.

44 thoughts on “My disagreement with Grant Cunningham and Rob Pincus…”

  1. I agree with the majority of this post. It’s a capable tool? Check. It’s shortcomings can be overcome?” Check. Safety off while carrying? Not so much.

    Not due to some concern of safety, or “accidental” discharge, But that it cannot be assumed that the safety you flicked to “off”, is still off when you draw it. Murphy’s law virtually dictates that you STILL have to check that safety with your thumb while coming up, because if it can be inadvertently disabled thanks to gear (seen this hundreds of times..) then it can be inadvertently ENABLED.

    I have carried an M9 for almost 19 years now, and while I’m no door kicker, I have thrown this dilemma around in my head dozens of times. If it can be off, you have to assume it could be on, and if you have to assume it’s on, then you’re flicking that safety anyway and there’s no point in going through the rigamarole of “hey, I’ll keep it off safe then it’s ready right away…”.

    Probably preaching to the choir, but..train for your weapon, sometimes it’s simple, sometimes it’s not.

    1. While I’ve had a few times found one of my past 1911’s safeties had been moved from Safe to Fire; I’ve never found my Beretta’s safety moved from Fire back to Safe. This is probably because the 1911’s Safeties are now huge gas peddles designed to be swept off as easily and quickly as possible. While the Beretta’s safety remains a more deliberate move.

    2. I have never – never – found my safety on. In thousands of days of carrying a 1911, it’s never happened. At home, out shopping, while working, hiking through the woods, etc. etc. – it’s flat-out never happened.

      I’d be far more worried that it won’t fire due to a defective round of ammunition, than due to the safety managing to activate itself. And, from what I recall from when I owned one, the 92 safety is more snag-free and requires more effort to operate than the 1911 safety, so it would be even less of a concern with the 92.

  2. There’s nothing wrong with the Beretta other than it’s a little big for what it is.

    I don’t know much about Mr. Pincus, but I greatly respect Mr. Cunningham’s revolver work. That said, he’s wrong and you’re correct: unless your branch of service mandates you carry the M9 with the safety on, there’s no reason to. It’s double action trigger pull isn’t as good as a nice revolver, but it’s pretty good for an autoloader and cleans up nicely.

    The shooting world is clique-ey and faddish. I don’t mean to lump these two guys into that broad statement, but it’s still true.

    A few years back, the vertical fore grip was all the rage in tactical shooting circles. Famous instructors like Pat Rogers advocated it, and they were ubiquitous.

    Now? They’ve fallen out of fashion. The tactical turtle stance is the current hotness, and instructors will guarantee you that you’ll shoot better if you use it.

    Likewise, the double action pistol is out of fashion. Also, ten years ago a unit was considered forward thinking if they adopted a 1911. Now, the gun that American GIs carried from WWI through the First Gulf War is seen as a quaint, finicky toy, fine for collectors and “hobbyists” but not for “serious shooters”.

    The human body hasn’t changed. The fundamentals of gun fighting haven’t changed. The paradigm hasn’t shifted a bit. Older designs are as good as they’ve ever been. The M1 Garand is still a hell of a fighting rifle, and the Beretta is a fine pistol. The fact that something new comes into fashion doesn’t diminish what came before.

  3. If I can carry a single 1911 cocked-and-unlocked for a decade with nary an incident, then someone can certainly carry a 92. Safety-on, holster, safety-off. It’s really quite simple. And even safer with the 92.

    I also don’t think the 92 is a large gun. It’s a wonderfully-sized gun, in my opinion. Actually, it’s a hair light… I had one with a Brigadier slide, and it was better-balanced than the standard slide. It’s just undercalibered for its size – it should come in 10mm.

    If we’re going to use their definition of efficiency, then my H&K P7M13 (or any other variant of the P7 series) is the most “efficient” handgun ever made. It’s totally inert while in the holster (or during reholstering), and naturally grasping it renders it ready-to-rock in an instant. Trigger is utterly consistent. No extraneous controls to mess around with. Reliability is 100% within any number of rounds that would be fired in a real gunfight. Magazines don’t just drop free – they eject with so much force that you can use them as an additional projectile. Doesn’t get better than that, excepting that it’s chambered in 9mm and, as such, not likely to stop a bear – given that they occasionally knock on my door, I figure “able to stop a bear” is mandatory in any gun I carry.

  4. Many moons agone I went into a discussion group about handguns, when I was in the US Army, 1974 or so West Ft. Hood. I went in the door with the opinion a Double Stack DA/SA 9mm was the answer. I came out a couple hours later enamored with the SIG 225 / P6. The Army M-9 followed many years later. I own a Kahr 9094N and a SWaMPy 9c and a couple of 1911s. I have to admit the Beretta PX-4 Compact is appealing to me more and more BECAUSE of the DA/SA trigger pull and the small size of the grip even double stacked. I like the grip, not the trigger of the S&W Sigma 9VE. The Glock SF 30 also appeals. Geoff Whose recent experience in pay interruption encourages him to pay down debt, rather than buy a new pistol…sigh.

  5. I’m in agreement with you and just about everybody else here. The only truly awful self defense firearms are the ones that aren’t reliable. The Beretta 92 is reliable. That’s all that really matters.

  6. Never really understood the “zomg the 92FS is huuugggeee” thing. I’m 6’1″, 170 lbs, and I often CCW a 92FS under a polo shit in a CTAC.

    1. I carry my 92 in winter with an MTAC holster. Used to carry my 92 compact in summer but then I rusted out the inside grip screw and lock washer. That’s the only downside I’ve had with my my 92’s. You need a shirt underneath to protect the grip.

    2. Lol im 5’6″ and carry one around the 430′ 5′ o clock position. Conceals fine on me. Not a fatty either just fyi lol.

  7. I don’t see how this is a right or wrong thing…maybe a feelings hurt thing because some people have a difference of opinion and you want to show them the “error of their ways” because they don’t like something that you do. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion and variety is the spice of life but the argument over which gun is better is getting to the point of being annoying. It seems that the Beretta 92 works for you, but Rob & Grant don’t care for it…so what?

    1. The linked article isn’t an “I don’t care for this” opinion piece. It claims that the 92 is fundamentally inferior. So, I think you have that reversed – the Ogre seems to be saying, “use what works best for you,” and the other two are saying, “use what I tell you to use.”

      1. Flint – I appreciate your reading my article, but I didn’t say it was inferior; I said it was inefficient. Only you can decide if those inefficiencies make it an inferior choice for you.

        1. “Inefficiency” is one sort of inferiority. So saying one is automatically saying the other.

  8. George – thanks for reading my blog; glad I could give you something to write about!

    You and I actually agree: “it’s a training issue”. YES. The whole point of my article is that the Beretta 92 (and by extension all DA/SA designs) require more time, effort, and ammunition to master their functions. More than what? More than those designs which don’t share its functional design.

    That’s the root of efficiency: using the least amount of any given resource to achieve an end. The Beretta is – objectively – less efficient than, say, a Glock because of the extra things you need to do to utilize it as it was designed, things which require that you spend some extra training resources to achieve and maintain any given level of proficiency. That’s all.

    Note that nowhere did I say the Beretta couldn’t be used successfully to defend your life; clearly it can, as people prove on a regular basis. It’s just going to take a little more of the shooter’s time and energy to learn to do so, as your description of your own training shows.

    1. The most efficient handguns… Glock’s 19 & 23 are fantastic. The 23 being my personal favorite and I can’t think of a more efficient handgun in the world. It’s almost my daily carry, and what I use when I’m Teaching or Taking a firearms course.
      However there are those shooters out there that refuse to accept the Glock or other striker fired pistols no matter what. The Beretta is a good option for those who want a full sized, hammer fired, metal framed weapon.
      There are also other reasons for liking the sexy curvy Italian…

      1. “However there are those shooters out there that refuse to accept the Glock or other striker fired pistols no matter what”…that sounds kinda condescending right there. What works for you doesn’t mean it will work for some others and cost really isn’t an issue as a used Glock can go for as little as 300.00 for something basic. I know you love your Glock but just because I don’t care for them doesn’t mean whatever I choose will be inferior or less efficient.

        BTW I do carry a H&K P7 PSP which is striker fired, but I do also carry DA autos and I can shoot them extremely well and I don’t feel handicapped one bit with any of them just because they aren’t striker fired guns. Handgun preference is very personal but no matter what choice they make, they will need to regularly shoot & train with what they will carry. That right there will make that person efficient & proficient enough to handle the situation with whatever handgun they choose.

      2. One could argue that the inability to give a hard primer a second strike is an inefficiency.

        With a DA/SA, the natural double-tap will do that, automatically, before you even register that it didn’t go “bang” on the first try.

        With a Glock, you have to cycle the slide if it doesn’t fire, which may take time that you just don’t have. I’d argue that as an “inefficiency.”

        Of course, simpler controls are an efficiency, so where’s the balance point? There’s never going to be any “One Perfect Gun,” because the requirements of different individuals and situations are variable.

        Different people learn and retain knowledge in different ways. And the pistol is just one component in the weapon, with the shooter being a far more critical part.

        Ask me for someone’s phone number, and I’ll have to think about it for a moment. Hand me a phone, and my thumb can dial the number immediately. I store phone numbers as a series of thumb motions, not as a string of numerals – that’s just how my brain works. Similarly, hand me any pistol I’ve trained with (or put me behind the wheel of any car I’ve ever driven, etc.), and I’ll immediately operate the controls like I’d been using it just five minutes ago, because that’s simply how my brain stores things.

        So, for me, variability in control methods is irrelevant. It does not reduce the efficiency of the weapons system (me and the pistol), at all. So things like not being able to re-strike a primer become more important, due to the removal of other issues.

        For someone else, utter consistency in feel from shot to shot may be so important that the world’s longest, heaviest DAO trigger is better than the best DA/SA trigger. Anyone selling a “One True Way” bill of goods is doing no one a service. The overall weapons system includes the shooter, the pistol, the holster, accessories, training, etc., and any question of “what gun is best” needs to consider the whole picture, and how that gun will fit into the system.

        1. I agree. I also find a da/sa superior for self defense for another reason. While most modern semi autos can be pushed out of battery and not fire, if someone is directly on you like where you are fighting for your ability to draw, if you had a hard primer on the first pull, like a revolver you simply pull the trigger again while maintaining a free arm to keep distance between you and a attacker

      3. I accepted the Glock pistols and still don’t like them. I’ve owned 5 different Glocks over the past 3 years and eventually sold every single one of them. They worked every time and I trusted my life with them but I still couldn’t stand them. They felt like a toy to me. There are plenty of pistols out there that are just as reliable as the Glock. I found that I liked the Beretta 92, Sig P226/P229, and CZ 75 designs much better. The updated CZ P-07 is a fantastic Glock 19 alternative for those of us that still prefer the old DA/SA hammer-fired design.

    1. You have a good point there. There’s another Italian family that makes an even better looking gun that too… But I’ll let people guess as to which one that is.

  9. I was an MP in the Army during the transition from the 1911 to the M9, and carried and qualified with both at one time or another.

    I *liked* the 1911 better. It just felt right.

    Ironically, I PERFORMED better, with higher qualification scores, with the M9, despite the “crunchenticker” DA/SA trigger and tendency for the muzzle to flip up.

    Might’ve had something to do with the age and wear on the 1911s, though. I could see daylight in between the frame and slide, and any movement of the pistol resulted in a noise discipline violation……

  10. “When I holster the Beretta, I then flick the weapon Off Safe.”

    Until you don’t and that will be when you need it most….. Mr. Murphy is a vicious bas&^%(.
    It happened to me.

    1. What is it, the 92D that’s decock only? That’s the only option that will keep Mr. Murphy at bay.

    2. Well, considering the position of my thumb as I go to grip the Beretta, hitting it back off safe really isn’t a problem for me. I don’t have monkey thumbs, but they are long enough to hit that lever without a problem.

  11. Still packing my 2nd 92fs everyday for work. Retired CATM m-9 instructor, switched to 92fs from 59 S@W series,prior to that, carried Colts best dbl action 357revolver. Have always decocked /lowered hammer on target, restored all controls to ready to fire position,then carefully holstered the weapon in such a way nothing gets near the trigger, It is not a race to holster a weapon,but if you need it for real it could be to get it into action. One of the prime seling point of the dbl / single semi autos was they could be carried safely with one up the pipe , hammer down safety off,just as ready as the revolvers they replaced. Any manipulation of a weapons controls when it is holstered seems to be an invitation to a negligent discharge in a bad dirrection

  12. I don’t care if the instructor doesn’t like what I bring to class as that’s not their call to make. I’m paying my money to get training. During the course of training they may point out why they think my choice has weaknesses and I may disagree but again it’s not their call to make. A good instructors focuses on application of the basics, efficiency of motion, and getting the student to learn the techniques being taught, not tell me my gun sucks like so many are wont to do.

    1. That’s a very good point. You train for what you have, not what might please someone else. If you have a gun you like and you want to use it for defense, by all means that is the weapon to bring to class. I don’t know any instructor that would disagree with that, unless that gun is inherently dangerous for some reason. As much as I dislike the Taurus Judge, if you came to one of my defensive pistol courses and you brought a Judge I would teach you how to run it.
      I’ve had guys bring Single Action Army revolvers to my pistol courses… Peacemakers, yes. They were Uberti Cattlemen, replicas of the famous Colt Peacemaker. By the end of the day they were running them like Western Outlaws. It was awesome. Inefficient? Sure. Effective? Absolutely. 6 well placed hits from .45 Colt? That’s going to resolve many defensive situations… and realistically… Everything you are likely to encounter short of a Zombie Rush.

  13. I have no issues with the M9 / M 92. It is a fine pistol. No, I don’t own one, but, I was issued with, qualified with, and carried it in the mil. I’ve carried it in permissive and non-permissive environments, and, I have had no problems with concealment. It is a full size pistol, however, with my size medium booger hooks, I have never had a problem handling it. It is accurate and reliable. And, yes, I’m not a fan of slide mounted safety, but, I’ve never carried it on safe, just decocked.

    You are completely correct that managing a DA/SA trigger is a matter of training.

  14. Over the years I have tried to stop wrapping my ego around what I carry. I’ve carried and used a wide variety of pistols and they all have their pluses and minuses. I still hate Glocks because they don’t fit me and above all (except reliability) a pistol should fit. I have never owned an M92 but I have owned the PT92 (Blasphemous I know) mostly because I hated the safety on the M92, but growing up with a 1911 made the frame mounted safety seem right. The SA/DA thing, yes it has its drawbacks, but so does everything else.

    My advice, for what it is worth, try and open your mind and actually TRY different pistols, find the good and the bad and find what works best for you. A warrior should not have preferences but should use the weapon best suited to the time and place.

    1. I agree… Try as many different weapons as you can and find the one that suits you the best.

      My problem is that I find that most of them suit me really really well. Which is why Correia calls me a “Gun Slut”. *shrug* He’s right. Or maybe I just have enough Gun Love in my oversized Ogre Heart for many guns. My excuse is that I’m Mormon and I can only have 1 wife… but I can have many guns and love all of them.

      1. I’m not a Mormon but I could play one on TV (my parents were until 1971 when they threw my dad out. . .long story) but I am as ‘Demo Dick’ says, a gun dweeb.

        My favorite book until I was 6 or so was Small Arms of the World (I still have it, books were apparently better made in 1968). and I waited in anticipation for each new copy of Gun Digest. My first Pistol was a 1911 as my dad had taught me to shoot with his Colt ‘Zephyr’ Commander (later renamed the Lightweight Commander) and I really wanted a Browning P35 even if it was in that wimpy, ineffectual 9mm. I still want a 3″ Python and a Ruger Security Six with a 3″ Python barrel, which most people think is weird.

        Today I EDC an XD40sc with an XD40 Tactical as my full sized backup, even though my current favorite is an EZ40 (AKA CZ999), in fact, if the Serbs had made the CZ999 with a shorter handle instead of just a shorter barrel I would probably be running nothing but them, despite the fact that they only have 10rd mags and they have metal frames and SA/DA action, and CIA is their current importer and I hate those SOB’s the way God hates sin.

        My point is that variety is a good thing and while I don’t like some things I don’t think I have a monopoly on what is right or wrong. I don’t think either Mr. Pincus or Mr. Cunningham meant to say that nobody should own an M92 or that you are an idiot if you like it, but they did kind of come off as if they were leaning that way, even if unintentionally. I’m not impressed by people who talk that kind of trash, like James ‘I’m on Youtube’ Yeager, I may have to butter my ego to get in confined spaces, but that guys ego is at toxic levels, although in his case it might just be the testosterone poisoning.

        Frankly Ogre, one of the big reasons I have been reading your blog for so very long (since the Original Mad Ogre site) is that you don’t play games, you tell people what you think and do it with humor and without a bunch of chest beating BS, keep it up!

        1. Thank you, Sir.

          Regarding James Yeager, I’d have to meet him in person and talk to him. I have only bumped into him a couple of times and both times I did not realize it was Yeager of the James until afterwards. SHOT Show is a busy place.
          I’ve got a photo of Rob Pincus who I intercepted on the way to Daniel Defense, and in the background Photo Bombing the shot was our good friend George Harris (Retired SIG Academy Director) only 10 feet away, but I totally missed him until days later and home from SHOT. Anyways… Where was I going with this? I like Berettas… It’s Friday night… I don’t have to make sense.

  15. I like my 1911 SN170XXX but I now carry my Beretta 92FS with 1/16″ homemade polycarbonate (Lexan TM) grip plates. Having grown old in 1911ville, the Beretta’s first DA shot is still vexing, but the only Glock I own is nice and clean and somewhere in the bottom of the safe.

  16. Excellent post! I couldn’t agree with you more. I love my 92FS Centurion, it just fits my hand perfectly, and I can manipulate the controls easier than any other gun I have.

    I do have to bust your balls a bit though. Your 9/21 post shows your 92FS holstered…with the safety on. 😉

  17. I picked up a used 92F (not FS) in anticipation/hedging that when the military M9’s get replaced (because they’re soooo totally gonna do that right away, right?) I’ll be in the queue to pickup surplus mags, holsters, accessories, etc. Although I was able to snag some new Beretta factory mags for about $17 each, vs Glock mags for $30 each.

    My overall plan might be to acquire one of each of the popular ‘movie guns’: Die Hard/Lethal Weapon/Stargate, check.

  18. The more I hear about Glock Unintended Discharges, the more I agree with some insurance companies who insist on a manual safety pistol. You can see at a glance it is on safe. Now that the Ruger P-95 has left the market, the Beretta’s are the only game in town, and NOT inexpensive. Geoff Who actually does not own a traditional DA/SA at the moment….hummmm that PX-4 looks better and better….

    1. Thete wss recently a report of a high level Marine Officer who had an ND with his Beretta. Its not the Gun. Its the guy Holding the Gun.

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