Last time it took me about 30 seconds after being called. That was a new record for me and, to be honest, unusual circumstances. It usually takes me a bit longer.
In my state the minimum wage is $8.67/hr. I make a good deal more than that working for an employer who respects me. The court is demanding I work for two days at $1.25/hr under pain of criminal prosecution. According to State law, if a private employer were to demand such terms, they would be in violation of the law and subject to stiff penalties. But governments can only exists by violating the rules they impose on everyone else.
But it’s not slavery, because it’s my “duty.”
Why not have a system which asks people to volunteer for jury duty. Why not pull from the retired, unemployed, or students on vacation, and offer legitimate compensation? Of course that would require you treat people with dignity, as if they were actually free individuals. The Government doesn’t know how to do that.
I plan to ask a lot of sincere questions about jury nullification. That should get me out of there quick.
My Smarter Half had jury duty a few years back. The jury seated consisted of:
Wife of former Federal police officer (My wife).
An FBI agent.
A retired CIA officer.
Two other federal employees.
And the prosecutor was so inept the juvenile who was caught with a concealed firearm had the charges dismissed.
Never got to the jury. All agreed they would vote for a new Commonwealth Atty. next election.
I dunno. I’m thinking that just maybe the good and smart people could make a difference by getting on to juries rather than deferring the dumbest among us. Not to mention, the jury should judge the law in question as well as the charges brought against the defendant.
Neither the defense or prosecution wants good and smart people on the jury. They want people they can easily influence and convince they are right. If they simply chose a pool at random and weren’t allowed a chance for voir dire, it would truly be a jury of someones peers. As it stands now, it is just a game of who can stack the deck a little better.
I had Jury Duty two weeks ago and was selected to serve as a juror. It was a first experience and I wanted to do it. Living in a state where the jury also sentences, we had to not only convict, but also decide what the punishment would be. Now, having the experience under my belt, I’m not sure if my attitude would be different next time.
I served twice in recent years. Each time I got done out of my jury duty money. Each case was one about domestic violence involving a repeat offender. My health was bad enough that got extensions and finally got a never mind forever letter from them. The system is pretty much broken. They pay hasn’t been adjusted for inflation in decades and people with families aren’t going to risk it especially these days. I had one guy tell me his boss gave him tips to get kicked off, pretty much skirting the law there.
It is a duty and you should all be damn proud to lose some wages to carry out that duty. I got my own summons and as much as I don’t want to, well “Sometimes I do what I want to do, the rest of the time I do what I have to.” Freedom isn’t free, rights have responsibilities. Go read the Constitution and Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie). Part of the reason the system is so buggered up is anyone with any sense finds a way out so nobody with any sense decides a case. So play stupid to get on and then bring up jury nullification in the deliberations if appropriate.
Also read ‘The Moon is a Harsh Mistress’. Then Farnham’s Freehold’. Perhaps one of Heinliens greatest gifts was his ability to effectively present differing political theories so convincingly, that you could never nail down exactly what his personal beliefs actually were.
‘Starship Troopers’ was an interesting exploration of a benevolent military dictatorship. Which is you know, not really freedom.
Freedom is free, it’s tyranny that requires violence to enforce and maintain.
In my particular city the police department is currently investing a great deal of resources tracking down a cartoonist who made non-identifying satirical web cartoons critical of several embarrassing internal matters including an officer accused of throwing a suspect off a bridge.
When they stop doing things like that, maybe we can have a conversation about what is and is not my duty to them.
Heinlein’s political beliefs changed over time, largely as a result of his lovely wife.
His first novel was “For Us, The Living,” which describes a socialist world in which everyone gets a guaranteed income, and only has to work if they want to make more than that. But with guns (anyone wearing a gun is essentially a police officer, but can be subject to duels and the like; anyone not wearing a gun has many fewer responsibilities, but has to defer to those who are armed, letting them cut in lines, or giving up seats on transportation, etc.).
If you go through in chronological order, he goes through a variety of evolutions, becoming more and more libertarian, and eventually ending up with the Tertius stories, at which point he’s a dyed-in-the-wool anarchist.
I think that is a very sensible evolution in thought.
When we are young and unsure of how we will survive in the world, Socialism is very appealing, as we are looking for the State to act a surrogate parent. A protector form the uncertainties of life.
As we become more independent, and aware of the cost of social ‘safety nets’ on our productive energy, we start to lean towards a more conservative perspective.
It doesn’t take long for us to realized that while they talk a good game, the conservative really don’t stand for what they claim.
So we become Libertarians, the party of rational arguments and logically consistent principles.
It doesn’t take long for us to figure out that politics is no place for rational arguments or logically consistent principles.
So we find the writings of Rothbard, Spooner, Thoreau, and their ilk.
Suddenly it all makes sense and we find the notion that social problems can only be solved by a small minority who violently impose their beliefs on everyone else offensive.
Yup. I like shooting for a fully-voluntary society (and if the socialists want their communes, they can have them; just don’t try and make me join). If we fall short of the mark, at least we’ll only have a small government. If we shoot for a small government, and fall short, we’ll be left with a moderately-sized government. And if we shoot for a moderately-sized government… well, look out the window – this is what we end up with.
The problem always is that, once you get 90% of the way to your goal, you lose around 90% of your supporters, because “we’re close enough – I’m not wasting more energy on this.” So aim to exceed your goal, so you will fall short and hit it.
I guess I’m not as important as some of you guys,
or maybe not as smart.Of course I also vote in
every election in person.As a citizen of this great
country,I am willing to inconvenience myself to
perform my civic duty.
We are supposed to be guaranteed a trial by a jury
of our peers,with all the smart people figuring ways
to duck jury,I’d hate to be in trouble with the law.
The easy absentee ballot is to my mind the perfect way
to rig an election.If you’re to busy to vote in person
which,while not always the easiest thing to do,you deserve
whatever stumblebum gets elected.But,then you have no right to bitch.
Got my asbestos drawers on so flame away.
I have been the first one up and the first dismissed for cause. Good feeling, that.
Last time it took me about 30 seconds after being called. That was a new record for me and, to be honest, unusual circumstances. It usually takes me a bit longer.
Yah, I’m usually there for at least two hours before they dismiss me.
Been a while, figure I’m due.
I also got the letter recently.
In my state the minimum wage is $8.67/hr. I make a good deal more than that working for an employer who respects me. The court is demanding I work for two days at $1.25/hr under pain of criminal prosecution. According to State law, if a private employer were to demand such terms, they would be in violation of the law and subject to stiff penalties. But governments can only exists by violating the rules they impose on everyone else.
But it’s not slavery, because it’s my “duty.”
Why not have a system which asks people to volunteer for jury duty. Why not pull from the retired, unemployed, or students on vacation, and offer legitimate compensation? Of course that would require you treat people with dignity, as if they were actually free individuals. The Government doesn’t know how to do that.
I plan to ask a lot of sincere questions about jury nullification. That should get me out of there quick.
Funny, but all this brings to mind the old quote from Edmund Burke, “All that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
It is a duty, a responsibility, and a right.
If not you, then who?
or maybe you have a new and improved system per FIJA?
I got a jury duty letter for a FEDERAL court a few years back.
Called them and informed them what I do for a living.
Got a nevermind letter a few days later.
My Smarter Half had jury duty a few years back. The jury seated consisted of:
Wife of former Federal police officer (My wife).
An FBI agent.
A retired CIA officer.
Two other federal employees.
And the prosecutor was so inept the juvenile who was caught with a concealed firearm had the charges dismissed.
Never got to the jury. All agreed they would vote for a new Commonwealth Atty. next election.
Me? Never been summoned.
“Just tell them the truth. Tell them you would make a great juror, because you can spot a guilty person just like that.”
~George Carlin~
I dunno. I’m thinking that just maybe the good and smart people could make a difference by getting on to juries rather than deferring the dumbest among us. Not to mention, the jury should judge the law in question as well as the charges brought against the defendant.
It’s pretty much the people that want to do it are the people who shouldn’t be allowed.
Same goes for Public Office.
Neither the defense or prosecution wants good and smart people on the jury. They want people they can easily influence and convince they are right. If they simply chose a pool at random and weren’t allowed a chance for voir dire, it would truly be a jury of someones peers. As it stands now, it is just a game of who can stack the deck a little better.
I’m on the Grand Jury of our county and damn proud of it.
The fifteen bucks a day covers lunch.
Most, if not all of the jury are conservatives.
I think Utah pays 10 bucks a day or something pittance. I can’t afford to get assigned a big or interesting case.
I had Jury Duty two weeks ago and was selected to serve as a juror. It was a first experience and I wanted to do it. Living in a state where the jury also sentences, we had to not only convict, but also decide what the punishment would be. Now, having the experience under my belt, I’m not sure if my attitude would be different next time.
LMAO!
Mention Jury Nullification and see how everyone reacts.
I’ll just start talking about as soon as I walk in.
http://fija.org/
Get some brochures, and hand them to the other jurors, too!
I served twice in recent years. Each time I got done out of my jury duty money. Each case was one about domestic violence involving a repeat offender. My health was bad enough that got extensions and finally got a never mind forever letter from them. The system is pretty much broken. They pay hasn’t been adjusted for inflation in decades and people with families aren’t going to risk it especially these days. I had one guy tell me his boss gave him tips to get kicked off, pretty much skirting the law there.
It is a good idea to read all of the summons. Showed up one time only to discover the summons was addressed to my invalid mother.
Yeah, this one says “Bring a book.” Great.
It is a duty and you should all be damn proud to lose some wages to carry out that duty. I got my own summons and as much as I don’t want to, well “Sometimes I do what I want to do, the rest of the time I do what I have to.” Freedom isn’t free, rights have responsibilities. Go read the Constitution and Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie). Part of the reason the system is so buggered up is anyone with any sense finds a way out so nobody with any sense decides a case. So play stupid to get on and then bring up jury nullification in the deliberations if appropriate.
Nate, you are absolutely right.
‘Starship Troopers’ is a good read.
Also read ‘The Moon is a Harsh Mistress’. Then Farnham’s Freehold’. Perhaps one of Heinliens greatest gifts was his ability to effectively present differing political theories so convincingly, that you could never nail down exactly what his personal beliefs actually were.
‘Starship Troopers’ was an interesting exploration of a benevolent military dictatorship. Which is you know, not really freedom.
Freedom is free, it’s tyranny that requires violence to enforce and maintain.
In my particular city the police department is currently investing a great deal of resources tracking down a cartoonist who made non-identifying satirical web cartoons critical of several embarrassing internal matters including an officer accused of throwing a suspect off a bridge.
When they stop doing things like that, maybe we can have a conversation about what is and is not my duty to them.
Heinlein’s political beliefs changed over time, largely as a result of his lovely wife.
His first novel was “For Us, The Living,” which describes a socialist world in which everyone gets a guaranteed income, and only has to work if they want to make more than that. But with guns (anyone wearing a gun is essentially a police officer, but can be subject to duels and the like; anyone not wearing a gun has many fewer responsibilities, but has to defer to those who are armed, letting them cut in lines, or giving up seats on transportation, etc.).
If you go through in chronological order, he goes through a variety of evolutions, becoming more and more libertarian, and eventually ending up with the Tertius stories, at which point he’s a dyed-in-the-wool anarchist.
I think that is a very sensible evolution in thought.
When we are young and unsure of how we will survive in the world, Socialism is very appealing, as we are looking for the State to act a surrogate parent. A protector form the uncertainties of life.
As we become more independent, and aware of the cost of social ‘safety nets’ on our productive energy, we start to lean towards a more conservative perspective.
It doesn’t take long for us to realized that while they talk a good game, the conservative really don’t stand for what they claim.
So we become Libertarians, the party of rational arguments and logically consistent principles.
It doesn’t take long for us to figure out that politics is no place for rational arguments or logically consistent principles.
So we find the writings of Rothbard, Spooner, Thoreau, and their ilk.
Suddenly it all makes sense and we find the notion that social problems can only be solved by a small minority who violently impose their beliefs on everyone else offensive.
Then everyone calls us names.
Yup. I like shooting for a fully-voluntary society (and if the socialists want their communes, they can have them; just don’t try and make me join). If we fall short of the mark, at least we’ll only have a small government. If we shoot for a small government, and fall short, we’ll be left with a moderately-sized government. And if we shoot for a moderately-sized government… well, look out the window – this is what we end up with.
The problem always is that, once you get 90% of the way to your goal, you lose around 90% of your supporters, because “we’re close enough – I’m not wasting more energy on this.” So aim to exceed your goal, so you will fall short and hit it.
I guess I’m not as important as some of you guys,
or maybe not as smart.Of course I also vote in
every election in person.As a citizen of this great
country,I am willing to inconvenience myself to
perform my civic duty.
We are supposed to be guaranteed a trial by a jury
of our peers,with all the smart people figuring ways
to duck jury,I’d hate to be in trouble with the law.
The easy absentee ballot is to my mind the perfect way
to rig an election.If you’re to busy to vote in person
which,while not always the easiest thing to do,you deserve
whatever stumblebum gets elected.But,then you have no right to bitch.
Got my asbestos drawers on so flame away.