I’ve not posted about the Trayvon Zimmerman shooting, because I don’t have the details.
I still don’t. But enough people gave asked, so I will give you my two cents.
Zimmerman, no matter what he did wrong in following after the police dispatcher told him not to, was violently physically attacked. Police on the scene evidently thought it was a good defense shooting, because the man was not arrested.
Trayvon however wins this, because Zimmerman gave him something few thugs ever get… Remembered. He will probably be remembered for a good ten to fifteen years. Most thugs are forgotten in a matter of weeks.
When told that the police ‘did not need him to do that’ (follow trayvon), Zimmermann zaid, “OK,” and started back to his truck to meet the cops at the mailboxes.
It’s on the 911 tape.
When Trayvon attacked him, Zimmermann was on his way to his truck. Trayvon had circled around to intercept him.
This bit of information wasn’t told on any of the news sources I’ve heard. Kinda changes the Left’s narrative, doesn’t it?
Doesn’t change it one bit. They will lie or ignore facts until such causes them immediate grief.
You also didn’t hear a lot about Zimmerman’s political affiliation: Democrat.
That’s funny.
“I’ve not posted about the Trayvon Zimmerman shooting, because I don’t have the details.”
I wish certain other people, like AS and JJ, and some organizations, would be as responsible. It’s too bad the “professional” media can’t follow your example. Meh. This world full of lefties is not going to be happy until society has completely gone down the crap hole, more than it already has. Then, they will look to the conservative, responsible, civic minded, law-abiding and law enforcing folk to save their butts. At least, until it is all back under control, and then they will go right back to attacking our rights, and taking our money to hand out, and making excuses for the lazy and morally challenged.
The Court of Public Opinion can be hugely damaging… Yet we still operate in the “Innocent until proven guilty” mode, at least legally. That means we have to assume Zimmerman is innocent until the State Prosecutor can prove otherwise. Yet Zimmerman is already convicted and given a death sentence by The Court of Public Opinion.
The lesson we gun owners need to take to heart here… Any one of us could be Zimmerman. Think about that and all the ramifications that go with it.
Stand Your Ground is a good law. The Castle Doctrine is a good law. Let’s make sure the Left doesn’t use Trayvon to dismantle these laws.
We can tell from the 9/11 tape that Zimmerman returned to his vehicle? Explain, please.
We know Zimmerman was “violently attacked” by Martin? How do we know those wounds weren’t self defense?
Sorry, but if you go around following people, and they confront you about you following them, you don’t get to shoot them and say it’s self defense. (If that’s actually what happened.)
@ Gene: I’m not sure what’s more annoying; Professional Racist Al Sharpton’s insistence that “justice” equals a conviction for Zimmerman or white people trying to explain to me that there was absolutely no racism in this case, after all, there is no more white-on-black racism in this country, it’s all the other way around these days.
And if someone is following you, then stops, you don’t get to attack them, unprovoked, and not expect to have them defend themselves… I, too, don’t have all the facts. However, as more info trickles out, it is becoming more apparent to me that there is a lot more to the story than the media and Sharpton have spun it to be.
I REALLY find it nauseating that the media described Zimmerman as a “White Hispanic”. That simple 2 word descriptor tells me that they are intentionally inflaming the verbage in their articles, and, it’s another attempt to demonize white people. Which is Zimmerman? White, or Hispanic? Maybe what the media needs to do is recognize that maybe, just maybe, Martin was a thug, and not the innocent child so many are trying to make him out as.
On the tapes, you can hear wind blowing and his voice bouncing as he is jogging after martin. The dispatcher says you don’t need to do that, and the wind noise stops and his voice stops bouncing. It doesn’t ‘Prove’ that he stopped and went back to his truck, but it does match his story.
You can listen here http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/explicit-zimmerman-call-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/
My personal take is that I don’t know exactly what happened yet. The media is completely unreliable at this point, so until there is a complete investigation and release of the information, no one can make an educated judgement about the situation.
Just my opinion.
Ogre, I agree with your first line. From there on, however, it gets a little sketchy. We don’t have enough details to really know anything at all. Not even that Zimmerman was violently attacked, that Trayvon was a thug, or anything else.
The media (on both sides) has muddied the waters and there’s no point in guessing. Better to sit back and wait for whatever facts are known to bob to the surface. Anything else is just a bunch of hot air.
I said we don’t know what happened… Some facts however are apparent. Such as Trayvon being a fucking Thug.
??? Explain?
Some might call a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain with gun following teenagers around a “thug.”
Harmon —
Zimmermann was NOT “self-appointed”. He was in the neighborhood watch at the behest of the homeowners’ association and with their explicit approval. The HOA has already clarified this point. And, Zimmermann did not carry the gun as part of his watch duties. He is licensed to carry a concealed weapon – as are many of us. Or do you think that anyone who carries a concealed handgun is a “wannabe cop” who is “jusi looking for trouble”?
You’re right, I initially heard he was un-affiliated with anything official.
But when did I say anything about CCW holders?
http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2012/03/media-bias-what-media-bias.html
check out the more recent photo of Martin
Yeah, not seeing that one. What’s your reasoning?
As I see it, all we know is that he was a 17 year old black guy who was wearing a hoodie and walking through a residential neighborhood at about 7PM. None of those facts do anything to prove that he was or was not a thug.
I think the lesson we can take from this so far is that there is an enemy within. It only takes a small radical percentage of a population (15%) to throw society into an upheaval. Guys like Sharpton and Van Jones will gladly dismantle our country for whatever vague idea inhabits their minds. For me it all serves as a reminder to look to God everyday, keep fit, and keep a ready supply of ammo close at hand.
Not that any of us trust NBC or any of the major networks anymore, but: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html
Liberal bias? Maybe. But more likely just to make it a hotter and more controversial story. And if the reaction to it caused protests to intensify, or more fringe figures to say incendiary and unwise things, or maybe even a photogenic riot or two – all stuff that needs covering and boosts news ratings – well, so much the better. It’s more about sensationalism.
The liberal news the conservative news, no real difference at all just the angle they have.
The conservative angle will be that Martin was a dangerous thug and Zimmerman barely escaped with his life and the liberal angle was that Martin was a angel that was gunned down by Sgt. Slaughter in a game of hunt the nigger.
The truth was more likely Zimmerman was trying to be what he was not and Martin happened to be in the wrong place wrong time.
@ Harmon :
It sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind that Zimmerman is the bad guy, and Martin is just an innocent victim. Kind of hypocritical, in light of most of your posts on here. It’s my understanding that there were witnesses. It’s my understanding that Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with his claims. It’s my understanding that Zimmerman started to go back to his vehicle, then was confronted by Martin, and attacked, without warning. It’s my understanding that information has surfaced that supports allegations that Martin was a thug. Have you noticed that the picture of Martin used by the media is older (he looks younger)? Kind of like when the media and race baiters use the term “teen”, or “youth” when reporting use of force issues on 18 and 19 year old hood rats, in an attempt to make it sound like they are victim children. Then, when describing whites of the same age, they use terms such as “19 year old man”. Unfair and manipulative reporting.
I’m not going to take sides, yet, but, I am heavily leaning toward Zimmerman being within his rights to defend himself from a savage assault such as that described being conducted by Martin. I’m also going to stick to my guns that Martin was a thug. I’ve seen hood rats get pretty stupid and violent over a perceived “dis” (display of disrespect), to hte point of homicide. (Yes, I’m a Cop, and have been for the past 20+ years).
Who’s made up their mind again, Mr. “savage assault” and “hood rats”?
Come on. You can do better than that.
This thread is full of induviduals who have made up their minds about the individuals involved in this case. You somehow know that Zimmerman was the victim of a “savage assault.” Meanwhile, Mr. Hill called Martin “a fucking thug.” You’ve implied he’s a “hood rat.” No evidence. The conjecture about Martin being a “thug” is no better than the conjecture about Zimmerman being a racist. Who is race-baiting again?
I’ve read the initial police report: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=25c_1333056517 (It was here, but it’s since been removed: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf)
Witnesses are saying all sorts of things: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-casts-doubt-on-shooters-self-defense-claims/
This gets very complicated. You don’t have anybody who was there watching at that precise moment when the gun was pulled and fired. Only Zimmerman knows exactly what he was thinking and what he was going through
It’s sad to see our countrymen tearing at each other for political points. Liberals aren’t the only who “let a good tragedy go to waste.” Conservatives are equally adept at it. Stand Your Ground laws and CCW rights are worth fighting for, but reckless asshats are not.
Harmon:
Your choir boy was picked up the week before on a curfew violation, with burglar tools, a crack pipe, and wad of stolen gold jewelry in his pockets.
Zimmerman had grass stains all over his back, a neat up face, and a bleeding scalp when the police got to him.
There just might have been a reason the police and prosecutors released this registered Democrat hispanic, Mr Zimmerman.
I’ve read the police report that mentions the grass stains and head wounds, though that does not prove Martin provoked the attack.
Do you have any links to back up your claim of Martin’s arrest? Even if that’s true it’s irrelevant here. What matters is who attacked who.
Why do you keep bringing up race and political affiliation? Democrats can be murderers, just as easily as Republicans, blacks, whites and Hispanics.
I keep bringing it up because the left would dearly love to paint the right as responsible for this “tragedy”. If the Dems insist on beating this drum, it is important that everyone know that one of their own pulled the trigger.
George Zimmerman was a hispanic and a registered Democrat. Suck on it.
As for you contention about who attacked first … are you seriously trying to argue that Marton, after getting shot, jumped on Zimmerman afterwords and beat him up before dying? Or that a man with a CCW would voluntarily choose hand to hand combat with someone he considered dangerous?
Oh and you also try to impeach me with the “post links!” argument: Here, let me google that for you, since you are apparently unable to use google:
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Trayvon+martin+arrest+record&oq=Trayvon+martin+arrest+record
Kris, you’re still thinking in terms of a left-right divide. This is about laziness and sensationalism on the part of the media.
I could care less what groups or organizations Zimmerman associates himself with, so far it’s not relevant in this case. But no one cares about that, both Zimmerman and Martin are both pawns in the culture war that’s destroying our country.
So far, we don’t know how those wounds were inflicted. Probably a scuffle of some sort, but even then, we don’t know who initiated it. We also don’t know how exactly Martin was shot. Point-blank? 20 ft away? Even if we knew all that physical evidence we still wouldn’t know who initiated it for sure. Being a CCW holder does not mean you can’t still make poor decisions.
How am I “impeaching” you? You are citing information that’s completely new to me. I’m simply asking you to substantiate it. Posting a link to a search engine result is not a source. Though here’s what I did find three pages into the link you posted:
“Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=1
It was announced today that, as part of his interrogation the night of the incident, Zimmermann underwent a “Voice Stress Analysis” – and he passed it unequivocally.That is one of the reasons that he was released without any charges.
Sanford PD is one of about 1800 departments and federal agencies which use the Voice Stress Analyzer.
Additionally, one can’t help but wonder what happened to the “tea and skittles” which Trayvon supposedly walked over a mile in the rain to get to the store and then a mile back through the rain. There is nothing in the police report about a bottle of tea or a package of skittles being found among his clothing and possessions. (Of course, on the street, “tea” is marijuana and “skittles” is ecstasy.) And, there are no security tapes showing Trayvon buying anything at the stores near the developement.
One also wonders why his girlfriend – to whom he was talking prior to attacking Zimmermann – didn’t try to call him back and check on him. You’d think she would have been worried – him being followed and all. For that matter, why didn’t his parents try to locate him? Why did the police have to find them – three days later? Could it be that Trayvon came and went as he pleased, with no parental supervision or objection; and that his three-day “disappearence” was nothing unusual?
I think the main thing is that though we have a right to carry concealed and should exercise that option, it comes down to the fact that if you shoot someone, justifiably or not, your life gets messed up. I am a believer in defending myself and others with deadly force if need be. Now, I wasn’t “there” but I wonder if a less lethal solution might have been a better option. You have pepper sprays, stun guns, tasers, kuboton etc. Anything to get away. But like I said, I wasn’t there!
If Martin was carrying drugs like you suspect, why weren’t they reported either? What police report are you referring to?
Actually, Martin’s father went looking for him the night before, police arrived at his house the next morning and told him that his son was dead: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403
“If Martin was carrying drugs like you suspect, why weren’t they reported either?”
Because that does not fit the leftist narrative, Harmon. It was reported. The MSM just ignored it. They do that when confronted with inconvenient facts.
The liberal press has decided that Zimmerman is some kind of hispanic Nazi, and they won’t stop until they are sued for libel.
In fact, they will even make up crap. The NY Post, and a bunch of leftist blogs are now claiming that neo-nazis are patrolling Sanford in support of Zimmerman. But when folks at Instapundit called the Sanford PD, they had not heard of or seen such a thing.
Perhaps Martin had already ingested the deugs. It’s doubtful that he had enough money to buy a large stash – or, perhaps he didn’t want to keep them at his father’s girlfriend’s house.
Wait for the autopsy.
And, the story about “looking for Trayvon that night” is a very new part of the story. Until now, it’s been all about the Martin’s complaining that the police not finding them for three days. I’m starting to think that this NEW story is because the Martins’ lawyer told them how shabby it makes them look to the public — along with trademarking their son’s name to make a few bucks.
Conjecture is not evidence.
I do have sympathy for the perp’s father. It looks like he was trying desperately to intervene … but when someone becomes an addict, generally only that person can make the decision to step back from the brink.
Now you know Martin was an addict, huh? Evidence? No evidence though, just as you have no evidence he was doing anything illegal at the time of the confrontation.
Nah … just his prior arrest record for drug use.
Obviously being arrested with a drug pipe, burglar’s tools, and pocket full of stolen jewely has absolutely nothing to do with drug addiction in your world.
Try again.
Source?
Here’s the only think I’ve found about any “criminal record” of Martin’s.
“Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=1
Zimmerman had the right to follow Martin. Show me a law saying he was prohibited. Zimmerman had the right to be suspicious of
Martin, show me the law saying being suspicious is illegal.
Zimmerman had the right to want to know what Martin was up to,
show me a law saying otherwise.
Martin had the right to ignore Zimmerman, even if Zimmerman asked him a lot of questions Martin had the right to ignore him
and keep walking…AWAY.
What Martin did not have the right to do is sneak up on Zimmerman, confront him and strike him. Once that occurred everthing that transpired prior to that point becomes irrelevant.
Neither man had committed a crime or caused the other one harm….till Martin knocked Zimmerman down. At that point it
becomes a fight…and the evidence indicates it was a fight for life, it appears the correct person won.
The problem is that there is no ratings and no political plunder to be had by admitting that this was just another instance of a
criminal being killed by his intended victim. That means that the facts must be ignored in order to con the people into believing what those with a vested interest want them to believe.
If you suspect someone is a criminal it’s incredibly foolish to follow them. Your CCW is for self-defense, it’s not a police badge. What would you do if you were a 17 year old and a middle-aged man starts following you for no reason (at least from your perspective)? You might get the impression the man was out to do you harm. Again, we don’t know what happened, so assuming one or the other is a criminal is nothing more than conjecture.
Very few facts in the mix, much speculation.
UNLESS Zimmerman is ARRESTED, the family and Lawyers cannot sue under Florida Law.
Rumors: Martin was a gang banger wannabe, working burglary to get his buy in with the Gang.
Zimmerman was a “community activist” who was trying to keep the neighborhood from falling into the ghetto.
Moral of the story, either keep the “n-words” out of your neighborhood, or “n-words” move in, humans move out, if you can.
FL Skeptic
Yeah, as we’ve learned Rumors are a reliable way of judging someone.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/10/update-7-the-trayvon-martin-shooting/