BYU conducted a recent and poorly conducted study of firearms used in bear attacks. Just having a gun isn’t enough. A. You have to have a gun and ammunition capable of stopping a bear. B. You have to know how to use it. That requires training.
The news report in the Trib makes mention that people don’t practice in a realistic manner… That part is very true. Just punching paper isn’t training.
The key in a sudden bear attack scenario is an accurate first round hit made fast. Very fast. You have one shot and no time to take it. Thus is the 21 foot rule to the extreme.
Practice with your bear gun from slung on the shoulder, snapping the gun off and breaking that shot accurately. The time to strive for is about 1.5 seconds.
Good luck with that.
How about slung across your chest with a 3 point sling?
Could help.
Yeah, I’ve been on other forums where people seem to think that magazine capacity will make a difference in a bear attack. They don’t know what they don’t know.
Oh, my. That’s an unfortunate thinking error.
It will. You sell the extra ammo that you never got to fire, to help pay for a small portion of the bandages you now need…
.223 isn’t stopping a 500 pound + angry bruin charging out if the brush from 15 feet away.
Just reason with and try to appease the bear. He will take what he wants and be on his way. Oh, that may be your head, but resisting is futile. We need to empower the bear and enable his vicious deeds. (For the witless; tongue is firmly in cheek)
Is it safe to carry a round in the chamber on an 870? That’s pretty much my option until I can afford a Redhawk.
I’ve taken some nasty falls with a loaded 870 on safe, without a discharge, over 25 years of bird hunting…so I’d say yes.
If you can get it into action in time, that 870 with slugs might be a better choice than the Redhawk anyway.
With Federal’s hardened penetration slugs… 12 gauge is very very good.
HARDENED. An important distinction indeed.
I recall someone on the interwebs doing a pretty exhaustive test of penetration with Foster (soft lead…the most commonly available for those that don’t know) and Brenneke slugs, including firing into either sides of beef or full cattle carcasses. They concluded by discouraging use of Foster slugs for self-defense, especially against dangerous & large animals. THey cited limited penetration, overexpansion, and some not-very-straight wound channels. Can’t recall what they found regarding weight retention.
Those above are “full bore diameter” slugs. I have no idea how standard expanding hunting sabot slugs perform, but I’d expect better than Fosters.
You have one of the best anti-bear devices ever built. Load it with your choice of full power, full caliber slugs. I’ve never had any issue carrying mine with a loaded chamber with the safety on. If the 870 safety were in any way iffy, there’d be dead waterfowl hunters littering the swamps and wetlands.
Bear Spray?
Research I have read says it is more effective. My choice is still to have a firearm available.
.45-70 is bear spray.
funny 45-70 is what I grab if unable to take more than the 10mm into the woods.
I pick BOTH.
10mm is what I’ll be stuck with if I am dumb enough to set my .450 Marlin down (again). I actually bought a back scabbard for it so I can keep it on me while working in the yard out at the cabin. A couple summers ago I heard one thrashing in the brush way too close to my location, and I scared it off temporarily by slamming the outhouse door repeatedly. Then it circled around, and a few minutes later stumbled across my driveway about 20 yards from where I was standing by the steps to the cabin, apparently just passing through. After that I became more observant about keeping my rifle on me even in the yard.
In semi-related news… pack of 4 wolves or wolf-dog crosses spotted by State aerial coyote hunters on Strawberry Ridge in Utah County…
Can’t be. The State of Utah has said there are no Wolves in Utah. Must be just Coyotes.
Ha! Just like there are no more mountain lions out East.
It’s time for some BEAR FACTS.
FACT: Twenty thousand Americans die in bear attacks every month.
FACT: Bear attacks are the number one and number two killers of Americans, edging out heart disease, strokes, diabetes, and the chronic lower respiratory diseases.
FACT: Bears will stalk their prey for weeks at a time. They’ve been known to use disguises and unmarked panel vans to track potential victims through urban environments.
FACT: President James A. Garfield was mauled by a bear on July 2, 1881. He survived the attack but died eleven weeks later, due to complications caused by infection.
FACT: A bear attempted to assassinate President Andrew Jackson. President Jackson, not a man to be trifled with, beat the bear into submission with his cane.
FACT: FBI counter-terrorism units have been tracking radicalized bears working with suspected Al Qaeda operatives within the United States.
In summary, bears are a threat to the very existence of human kind. Constant vigilance is required, along with large-caliber firearms capable of deep penetration.
Give bears no quarter… they wont give you any.
God, I’m glad someone has the balls to tell the truth about bears. In my neck of the woods, we’ve had to contend with bears constructing deadfall traps filled with sharpened tree branches and gutter spikes.
I’ve come across old tire houses far out in the woods where they were going over the basics of CQB. Judging by the bear tracks fanned around each corner, they were doing it right too. I can only assume they’ve moved on to more modern facilities. Black bears are ruthless. And we all know that if these were polar bears, the Feds would crack down immediately!
A fair fight with a bear is two Bowie knives. Let’s keep it honest.
A grizzly in full charge is going about 50 feet per second. Good luck with that first, much less second, shot.
Where is the best point of aim to stop a charging brown bear? I’m guessing a head shot is dangerous because the brain is too small a target and the skull too thick. The heart would be too small and low in the body. Collar bone/shoulder area with a hard large round?
CNS is the only really reliable/fast stop. Up the mouth/nose, no higher. Rifle bullets have been known to deflect off the forehead. There are lots of places you can shoot a bear that will kill it, and still allow it to live long enough to kill YOU.
So what you looking at is an area about 4 inches wide and 8 inches deep that you have to put a round into in about 1.5 to 2 seconds?
Remind me to stay the heck out of bear country.
They’re usually not a problem unless you do stupid things. Exercise good camp discipline, common sense while fishing, hiking, etc, and you probably won’t have any difficulties. The weapon is just there for the rare cases where all else fails. I’m as bearanoid as they come and I’ve never had to take a shot at a bear. Also, people can and do make that shot.
One of my favorite stories of ignorance is about a bush pilot who flew a fisherman from the lower 48 out to an isolated river. He noticed the fisherman didn’t seem to have a firearm and asked him what did he have for protection against the bears that fished that river. The fisherman said not to worry he had bear spray. As the pilot flew his float plane out he was uneasy and he circled around to check the fisherman out. Sure enough the fisherman was prone, thrashing, screaming and clawing at his face. It always pays to read the directions.
I always heard that as a Californian.
Then there is the way to identify black and grizzly bear droppings. The black bear droppings have grass and berries in them. The grizzly bear droppings have bells and smell like pepper.
I knew a guy (honest guy) who said he once shot a bear in the head close up twice with a .357. He said the bear just kind shook it off.