There comes a point where the right to protest, free speech, crosses the line. These protestors however are not calling for the peaceful resolution of grievances. They are actively seeking the destruction of the US Constitution. At this point, I would support/advocate a more active response.
I suggest arresting those calling for the Marxist Revolutions, and see them prosecuted… For everything possible. Lock them up. Maybe even toss them some blunt weapons before the police get there, so you have some use of force justification and just pop them in the heads.
Harsh? That’s nothing. Look at every communist revolution in history. We let these guys get traction… America is done.
“useful idiots”
Free speech and freedom to assemble are the very principles that America is built on. As much as I wouldn’t like a Marxist revolution either, I believe that if they can “get traction” then it’s their lawful right to bring it about. Will they? Doubtful. However, to suggest that American citizens should be jailed, framed, and even killed (murder, if some blunt weapons are tossed in for “use of force justification”) is about as seditious as talk gets. “Petition the Government for a redress of grievances” includes grievances with the entire governmental system. After all, the only thing that should be keeping a just government in power is that the majority continues to vote for it.
The only thing that keeps any just government in power is The Rule of Law.
Very true. I would argue that laws stem from the will of the majority, so it’s basically the same thing. That being said, I think you just stated what I wanted to say, only with much less rambling. Thank you!
Historically, government is the one of two human institutions that grows in power and influence by failure. The only thing that keeps a government in power is perpetuating the cons that keep it sucking up authentic productivity in exchange for trinkets.
The protestors are ill informed fools. If the state uses violence to suppress their actions those fools quickly become martyrs. That works out better than you might expect for a elite prepared for it. Such a failure can be spun into a crisis and crisis is an essential fuel for the power of the modern nation state.
Go ahead b’rer Ogre, throw them into that briar patch.
I agree completely. Not to mention, if stiffling one type, or topic, of free speech is allowed or encouraged, what is to stop the government from continuing on any type of speech? I’m actually surprised that George made the original statement. That is some VERY thin ice.
I agreed with bmq215.
If its their lawful right to kick off a Marxist revolution then its my bloody well god given right to respond in a fashion I find appropriate when they get going.
…
Anyway, I’d say let them get things started, get some good solid treasonous traction before any action is taken. We don’t want to violate any of their rights, free speech is only free if folk have a right to say stuff the majority disagree with.
The practice of dueling should be re-instated though, cause like a great constitutional scholar once said “1st Amendment? Son, the 1st Amendment protects you from the Government, not from me”
I hate Marxists as much as you, Ogre, but honestly what you’re saying is as bad as, or even worse than, what those Unemployed College Graduates in NYC are calling for. Locking up people, stripping away their constitutional rights, and inflicting violence upon them simply because they are espousing a particular idea is completely against the very same Constitution you are seeking to protect and defend. Like it or not, they’ve done nothing wrong (aside from blocking traffic and some disorderly conduct charges) so we have to let them be for now.
Truthfully, I’d wager that 95% of the protesters in Wall Street are empty-headed College Students who have no earthly idea what they are espousing, and the 5% who do believe that as right (or Left)-thinking people, they should be exempt from the rules they propose. In my experience, shutting down groups like this is easy as breathing; just trick the Thinkers into revealing themselves as blatant hypocrites to the Non-Thinkers, and the NT’s suddenly lose interest.
That said, if these protest groups do escalate things and start, say, physically attacking bankers and/or financial institutions, then all bets are off. Break out the hollowpoints and aim COM since I doubt they’re smart enough to wear Kevlar.
Well put.
They whine and moan about existing conditions, only to continually vote against the 1 group in the world that can fix things: productive (job-creating) Americans. When they finally subdue the “wealthy parasites”, they, in turn, will become expendable, and will all starve.
The problem with these economic revolutions is that they don’t want to help the poor, but to take away from the rich. So the oust those that know how to run things, redestribute things… And then run everything into the ground and just make everything worse. Classic example, the French Revolution. Modern example, Zimbabwe. (Based on Race, but principles apply)
Zombies live! Watch the second video.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/piven-delivers-awkward-call-and-response-speech-to-wall-st-protesters-thieves-and-cannibals/
America is not this lunatic fringe.
Like I said, empty-headed morons, probably college students) who have absolutely no idea what they are protesting and completely lack the ability to think for themselves.
Say… I feel a blog post of my own brewing now…
Aim for the head, and don’t get any on you.
Okay, I admit I’m new at this whole insuerction thing but, asking these rich guys to pay more in taxes is a problem?
I don’t get it. I’m not trying to be a troll. Just, help me out.
They can afford it.
And killing these guys Ogre, is illegal and dumb. in my opinion.
It looks like lots of rankand file union guys are there to.
What do you make of that/
And that guy with the pepper spraw. no way is that cool.
And what about the vets there marching with them.
I just want to know.
The problem is that isn’t what these guys are asking for.
It doesnt seem like there asking for anything. It looks like a bunch of people think that the system needs fixing.
And my feelings are a little hurt. I had a good job as a pump mechanic (irrigation) but the company folded. I’d managed to save some money so I went to college and took business admin. I have a job now but its only 30 hrs wk at 50cents over minimum. To imply that all college students are empty headed is insulting to me and anyone else in my position. There no stupider on average than anybody else.
And ogre you didn’t answer the rest of my questions.
This thing sems big. 70 cities around the world, seattle, Boston San Francisco, LA, Portland are just the ones I can think of right now.
I think somethings going to happen.
My opinion, as always, is worth exactly what you pay for it.
I think ConEd or whoever should cut off the power to where they are charging their electronics. Once they have no computers, phones or iPods, it will be over and they will crawl back to mom’s basement or their dorm or whatever. As long as they can tweet and post on FaceBook and YouBoob, they are still in bidnezz. Cut ’em off from the ‘net and they will collapse.
I am not in favor of killing them, for the most part. Cut them off from being able to rant and they are done. Cut off their water and food, and it won’t take 24 hours to be rid of the little nitwits. They don’t look all that tough to me.
Left to my own devices, I’d run a big truck dispensing tear gas through there and blast Spinal Tap at 11, 24×7. They’ll go home.
But that’s just me.
FWIW, I personally wasn’t trying to imply that all college students are/were stupid (I only recently graduated myself); just the ones who blindly follow whatever ideologue they encounter first. You don’t strike me as that type, Cliff.
You have to look at it from the perspective of this. You say the “rich guys” can afford to pay more taxes. Well, guess what? The people in a lower income bracket see YOU as a “rich guy” (trust me, I’ve been there), and THEY think that YOU can afford to pay higher taxes. It’s not an objective point. It is VERY subjective.
I don’t buy that, Gene.
No bodys going to envy me.
Okay, my last didn’t get posted.
Gene, I call Bravo Sierra.
I’ve been at the bottom of the heap, or close to it, my entire adult life and I’ve never felt the guys flying signs at the freeway on-ramps wanted me to pay more in taxes.
I don’t want you to pay more… or anyone else here – unless you’re a billionaire – which I doubt.
So Gene, tell me about how you’ve “been there”.
Seriously, do you have evidence or are you just making it up?
You are wrong. People will typically look at others that have more and covet it. And as far as “been there”, I don’t understand why you want to make this into a dick measuring contest. I’m not telling you anything. It was a painful part of my life, and some anonymous jerk on the web does not need to be shared with. Enjoy your day.
Sorry Gene,
That was obnoxious of me.
I still don’t buy your premise though.
Agree to disagree?
The problem is… the “rich guys” already pay more.
Look at tax paid by income.
Then look at what income levels effectively pay no tax… due to “tax breaks” low and middle income people pay a LOT less, percentage wise, than the “rich guys”.
To be “fair”, the “poor” would not get the amount back when they file their taxes.
However… they whole system is hosed and needs a clean slate rebuild.
Jim
Let them do what they’re going to do…. They look pretty stupid already… They are entertaining in that they represent the left and will leave a mess to show for their efforts.
Top down, bottom up won’t work here. They are simply showing the us the fools that they are.
if they start to raiot i think that we should send the national gard in to restor law and order with extream by any meand nessary
Brandon,
Spellcheck is your friend. Being understandable helps people support what you’re saying.
We don’t want the other side thinking – more than they do – that we’re a bunch of idiots.
George, how is this any different from CNN and MSNBC wringing their hands over Tea Party “racists”?
Good point. My answer though is that the Tea Party never asked to throw away the Constitution… These guys are. I think that’s a big difference.
Hmmmm. I don’t believe the Constitution says anything about a national bank that favors particular markets or gives Congress explicit authority to massively subsidize financial institutions that are failing due to their own corruption and malfeasance. The Occupy Wall Street protestors don’t seem to be advocating “throwing away” the Constitution, rather, much like the Tea Party, want the government to start abiding by it. See the link I posted below.
It’s pretty pathetic how the two parties have convinced us it’s our fellow Americans who are the problem. The Duopoly passed NAFTA and GATT, which incentivized companies to send jobs overseas. Both parties sent us and are keeping us in Iraq and A-Stan, which has cost us umpteen trillions in blood and treasure. Both the Republicans and the Dems are too gutless and corrupt to fix immigration and healthcare. Both parties control the election system and keep any 3rd party threats out. You want a choice besides Coke and Pepsi, Hertz and Avis? F*&k you. Now go back to calling for your countrymen’s arrest and execution.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dylan-ratigan-occupy-wall-street-is-like-the-tea-party-movement-before-it-was-%e2%80%98bought%e2%80%99/
freedom of speech isn’t a suicide pact. If someone is talking about raising taxes on the rich, that is a policy decision that can be debated and rejected, however whenever there is talk of overthrow of government and the constitution, that is aiding and comforting the enemies of the US. There is some part of an oath that i have had to take a few times and you swear to uphold and defend the constitution, not the government. As long as you are operating within the bounds of the constitution, everything is protected. As soon as you start causing damage or advocating illegal behavior, arrests should be made. Capitalism is freedom. Socialism/marxism is not. I am not personaly concerned about a bunch of teenage empty headed socialists. They will only get traction in northern vermont. You can see what happens when a marxist enters the white house. There is a popular uprising of real freedom loving americans.
The correct answer is not to stifle their speech or deliver threats, it is only to remind them to operate under the constitution and realize that their protests are meaningless. I would bet that 75% of these people will forget or be too stoned to vote in november.
I guess when the more enthusiastic Tea Party protestors who called for “voting from the rooftops,” weren’t advocating illegal behavior? Or is talk of revolution only ok when we do it? As we–and no one else–are the Real Americans(TM)?
The tea party rallies have been completely non violent. The only violence and racism that came from them was from leftist infiltrators who tried to put a negative face on the rallies. Not to mention, none of the tea party rallies have started riots, as opposed to the anarchists and other leftists at WTO and other of their protests (look at the Paris riots a few years ago, the Greek riots, etc). London wasn’t on fire because rich people didn’t want tax hikes.
No one on the right is talking about a violent revolution. No one on the right is advocating executions except for fringe lunatics that no one listens to. It is all about the ballot box. Your argument is a straw man. There isn’t anyone that says execute the president etc. They talk about lowering taxes and cutting spending, not cutting throats. Roseanne Barr recently advocated (yesterday) beheading wall street bankers. She is a leftist. Need I remind you of bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn? They were leftist terrorists who support and are friends of the president.
It ultimately comes down to basic tendencies and beliefs. A true conservative believes in individual freedom. You can’t execute people and believe in individual freedom. A true leftist believes in the greater good of the collective and not the individual. It is ok for them to sacrifice a few for the “greater good” That is why it is tacitly accepted for a leftist to talk about violence and engage in violence, as long as it is for the greater good. That is why it is ok for union thugs to show up at a CEOs house, or Eric Holder to send guns across the border to mexican drug cartels. The greater good is gun control and control of the people. If we have to scramble a few border agents and a few mexican people, it is ok as the greater omelet is public perception that the US is the source of guns and guns must be regulated. The problem is that there was sunlight on all of this and some whistleblowers.
Che Guevera – Leftist
Ho Chi Minh – Leftist
Mao Zedong – Leftist
Hitler – National Socialist
Castro – Leftist
Stalin – Communist
Karl Marx – Marxist
Mussolini – Leftist
Note: None of these people are conservatives or right wing.
Can you name any right wing people who committed genocide?
Abe Lincoln – Republican
George Washington – Right Wing Extremist
Ronald Reagan – Republican – Ended the USSR and that Evil Empire
It is really quite simple. It is about defending the constitution as it is written. That preserves freedom. Individual freedom. People who flout the constitution or go around it should be prosecuted. Find an example of a right wing person who is advocating illegal action, and prosecute them. However there isn’t any. It is a straw man argument which depends on people not questioning the premise of the question.
you need to review your world history, man. Hitler was completely right wing. National Socialism ideology was heavily modeled on Mussolini’s fascist regime. And please don’t say Mussolini was a ‘leftist’. His political part was the “national fascist party”.
Nationalized socialism is leftism. Hitler’s germany started universal healthcare, started hippy environmentalism, and controlled the country like a nanny state. There was gun control and everything else that a leftist would love. He nationalized industries and took control of everything.
“The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill.”
~Benito Mussolini
“The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. ”
~Hitler
Just because you have read a whitewashed history of the world where fascism is equated to right wing/conservative ideals doesn’t make it so. A system where government is in control of everything and in control of your life is antithetical to conservative ideology. Fascism is leftist ideology. It is governmental control.
A true right wing individual is bordering on libertarianism, not fascism. Government control is left wing ideology.
Actually Ben, you are wrong. Hitler was a NAZI. Nazi were called the National Socialist party. Last time I looked, Socialists were Leftists. And Mussolini was a fascist, but he was very similar to what we think of as a modern day leftist. He believed that everyone should be unionized, a strong progressive tax, and basically everything nationalized and run by the aformentioned organized labor/government. The only reason he is labeled a righty is because if he believed that everyone is equal, then all nations should be equal, and he didn’t believe that. He was a naionalist. But basically, he was a huge leftist. Not the kinder, gentler type that are generally professorial and collegial, but a power hungry man who was not afraid to go to war to get his power.
Well there is now a legal precedent for the President to order the summary execution of American citizens without habeas corpus, for the crime of unpopular political speech.
So we should air strike them.
That’ll prevent tyranny for sure.
I don’t think they pose a real enough threat to justify any use of force against them. They can protest all they want, but they are not the majority, and these type of people tend to not like guns. So I don’t see it going anywhere.
Bottom line for all of them including the self proclaimed Marxist SEIU is they don’t want to work, but they do want you, all of you to pay for it. Oh and the Constitution is TP to these “people”.
As always, Kipling is instructive.
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
LOL.
“These guys are laughable, pathetic, confused hippies…who are Marxist scum who could topple our republic at any moment and should be shot.”
“We let these guys get traction… America is done.”
The country is done. Look at the $23.7 TRILLION we gave to the BANKSTERS in bailouts. Look at the out of control Criminal Reserve. Look at the genocidal immigration policies which are designed to replace the native anglo-saxon population with people from the Turd world.
I’ve withdrawn from the movement. It’s no longer a legitimate working class movement or any kind of class struggle. It has been fatally marred by an insane level of white guilt translated into over-the-top anti-white racism. This takes the form of the “Progressive Stack”, in which white males must always move to the back of the line to speak. This has theoretically been a rule since day one but it hadn’t been brought up until recently. This racism also manifests in a constant muttering of racist comments and endless discussions of “White Privilege”, during which people agree that color blindness is actually racism and so is equality. So anything other than anti-white racism IS racism. Concern over such ideas IS racism. Not wanting to be treated differently because of the color of my skin IS racism. The OWS movement is tainted by university-created racist obsession that is immoral and counter to class unity. I will not work with a group that condones racism of any kind.
Well I’ll be…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/conservative-journalist-says-he-infiltrated-escalated-dc-museum-protest/2011/10/09/gIQAIKxCYL_blog.html