It seems that the news media would have us believe that most of these wild fires across the west have started because of target shooting.
This is bullshit.
I’ve fired millions of rounds, and the only fire I caused was when I fired tracers – after protesting because I thought there was a risk – and lit half of Camp Williams. Regular ammo just doesn’t cause fires. I doesn’t.
The Libtards are going to use it to enact more gun control.
Yea, these fires have nothing to do with poor environmental policy restricting logging, controlled burning, and forest management that has successfully turned the western states into a tinder box.
Yeah, what you guys said!
I knew I shouldn’t have been using incendiary rounds for squirrel hunting.
I think the only way shooters may be causing them is if they are careless with cigarette butts, or people driving out over the dry grass. The fire currently burning by Herriman, Utah was caused by a vehicle driving onto a dry field.
If this article is true, it was incendiary ammo which caused the fire.
Sounds almost like dragonsbreadth rounds
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/arizona-forest-fire-879543
By “regular” do you mean lead and copper? Are you claiming that steel jacketed ammunition cannot start a fire?
What do you think?
I dunno in the Army conducting live fire with the M-60’s we started many fires in the summer on the range.
If you were in the same Army I was, every 5th round was a tracer.
Yep. USFK mostly.
Hmm, bachelor party, alcohol, novelty incendiary shotgun round, random shooting. Sounds plausible to me.
Doesn’t mean that most target shooters are idiots (as the media is/will doubtlessly try to claim). These ones, however, were.
I grew up in southern Arizona, which is every bit as dry as Utah is at the moment, only AZ is this dry nine months of the year. In twenty years of shooting in this environment, I’ve never seen or heard of somebody shooting normal rounds in the desert and starting a fire.
All this “target shooters did it” stuff is pure bullshit, and mostly speculation. If they want to hassle shooters, then they should also be targeting the ELF and Sierra Club for investigation. Both groups operate in UT and the ELF has set some mean fires before. Hell, they also need to be looking at the reserve firefighters to make sure one of them hasn’t been having money troubles and decided a little overtime action was in order, just like that asshat that started the Rodeo fire in AZ ten years ago.
I’d assumed that it was that silly, exploding target shit. There are people dumb enough to shoot at that this time of year.
… and there are people dumb enough to believe that shooting at Tannerite by itself causes fires or is flammable in any way.
Ooh, touched a nerve.
Thanks, I’d forgotten the name of the idiotic crap.
Something that’s not flammable but will start a fire?
Hmmm… that’s a tough one.
How about; your catalytic converter, your vehicle cigarette lighter if you pitch it out the window; in fact, anything hot enough to be above the flash point of dry grass. A breeze makes it even better.
My welder is “in no way flammable” but I could burn down the house with it – and nearly did once. MIG welder, the only gas involved is inert.
Your toaster is in no way flammable but it… does something to your toast. What’s that called?
But your point is: Tannerite can’t be set ablaze with a match ergo; it’s safe.
How about you put a chunk of it in your hand and fire a round through it, then get back to me.
I’m thinking the injuries to your palm will be called “burns” by the EMT’s.
Hell, C4 isn’t “flammable” in the sense you’re talking about.
Anyway, I guess you’re one of the geniuses out there shooting at tannerite (Lookee! It blows up!) in these conditions.
Smart.
Psst…
http://www.tannerite.com/category/featured/
” Tannerite® is much safer than ordinary black powder, or any other sporting powder because it is not flammable and will not burn in either it’s mixed or unmixed state. Furthermore it can’t start a fire when shooting it, since it is an oxygen-robber and as such will actually extinguish and suppress fire.”
Try some research before issuing forth oral diarrhea…
Jim
Or finger droppings… whichever you prefer.
Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-62gy3juAk
“Issuing forth…” Listen at ya.
“Tannerite is the trademark for a patented ammonium nitrate/ aluminum powder based binary explosive”
Learn something about thermodynamics, dim-bulb.
Gee, an explosion creates… a high temperature, like multiple thousands of degrees… temperature.
Any of the little things possessing mass that may be in the immediate vicinity of said explosion are going to pick up some of that heat, “oxygen robbery” notwithstanding.
Oh, and the oxygen comes right back – real quick.
Nature abhors a vacuum – even more than it does stupidity. When that happens, anything retaining enough heat will light shit up.
I can’t believe you idiots can’t see that on your own but… It’s so cool. It BLOWS UP when you shoot it!
Oh yeah, the stuff is way safe but, no one’s done my “put it in your hand” test yet, have they?
So, the manufacturer comes up with this “oxygen robber” horseshit and you all gobble it up ’cause ya just gotta have your blowin’-up thing goin’ on.
And Jim… “Finger droppings…” Please. Spare me.
Back to reality,: A black powder explosion brings its own oxygen to the party with the potassium nitrate. Look it up.
So do lots of other goodies, like thermite.
Tannerite is different so I will grant you this: If you explode your block of this juvenile shit in an enclosed propane/air environment I firmly believe that nothing untoward would happen – other than a brazen theft of oxygen.
It’s just that; in doing it in an environment with lots of… other stuff, you’ve introduced lots and lots of variables into the equation – like little bits of sand and brush and shit that may not have gotten the memo about all the oxygen being gone… for the time being; so they heat up anyway.
Anything that will hold enough heat to ignite dry grass (I’m guessing 500 to 600 degrees) will, it it’s flammable, ignite. If not, it will do it’s level best to raise the temperature of whatever it contacts until the temperatures of the two balance one another out. Homeostasis.
If that blissful balance happens to rest above the flash point of any combustibles involved then, guess what? Something’s on fire ’cause the oxygen’s back.
Try educating yourself before you start going to bat for a product that, unless used for avalanche control, is all about big-dick, junior-high level, cheap thrills.
Really, stick to the gaming – at least until winter.
And contemplate a world where you’re satisfied with making the can fall over, or the bottle break, or putting a little hole in the piece of paper close to where you wanted it to be.
Then, you can stay up late.
First off, I have never used Tannerite or any other exploding target.
I HAVE been around when others have used it, under a metal trash can.
I went over and checked a chunk of said can after it went off.
Maybe 30 seconds had passed. It WAS hot to the touch, I did not cause physical damage to my hand by holding it… just had the urge to drop the hot piece of metal.
At least in my limited, although hands on, experience.
I know if you put propane or gas with it… you will have fire.
If you put it IN the dried grass, you may get fire… however you are also a moron at that point.
Also, dont own any form of gaming implements other than a pair of dice and some cards.
I have bouts of insomnia… I am up late quite often.
I do admit, I love the constant failure in your assumptions so far.
Please continue, I am always happy to see someone who looks to be a professional at something.
Jim
Why in the hell would I do your hand test? What’s that supposed to prove? Of course my hand would blow up, but I would not simultaneously burst into flames according to your ramble.
And if I believe your flawed logic, then bullets are causing all these wildfires because friction = heat = fire and the whole state would be ablaze every Saturday morning.
I own Tannerite and have shot it literally over a hundred times, mainly for long range shooting. But for fun I have placed it under phone books for a juvenile cheap thrill as you say. Why weren’t any pages (more accurately, confetti) scorched?
And who are you to tell me what’s fun and what I can or cannot do with my spare time? I don’t comment when you kick your dog or beat off to Golden Girls re-runs, so leave it alone Dude.
“Beat off to Golden Girls” This is the best you can come up with?
If I’m so out there on this, why did your governor (Assuming you’re from Utah) circumvent the sacred Second so that you dumb-fucks can’t keep burning the world down.
Grow up and, for fuck’s sake, if you’re going to insult someone… get better at it.
And, I reiterate: If you have to have something blow-up because you’ve hit it – and if it’s “perfectly safe” to do it any old time you want, you’re an idiot.
Plain and simple. You’re a plain idiot and a simple one.
Clear?
Ask a Forest Ranger.
Oh shit! Forgot. They’re the enemy.
There’s a reason no one takes you clowns seriously.
Personal attacks are not cool here.
“Try educating yourself…”
“…stick to gaming…”
“…close to where you wanted it to be…”
Dude, you have no idea who you’re insulting. His wife can out-shoot you any day of the week. Hell, I’ll bet his teenage son shoots better than you do!
To top that, he is one of the Ogre’s personal friends – something that you (and I) are not. Don’t disrespect him.
To have an adult-level debate is one thing, but if you keep acting petty, I’m going to rip up your Man Card.
Dude, no worries.
It is just the internet, AND George’s place.
No need to get revved up.
He said his mind, I said mine… We should all be good to go.
Jim
Mutual respect is key.
Spoken like a gentleman, Jim.
Sorry I pissed in your Cheerios.
Things are all out of sequence here.
My only point is this: If the countryside is ready to burn to nothing with a good, hard look, it it smart to fuck around with pyro-technics, safe or no.
Thanks, George.
Right you are.
His wife? His teen-age son?
WTF are you talking about? They can shoot better than me?
Maybe. So…
And I got your man card, dangling, lad.
George, I’ve been waiting to hear someone else say what I’ve been trying to tell everyone. It’s political ignorance for sure.
Well the Gov. passed on his issues to the forestry guy by the look of it. Steel core ammo and exploding targets are banned in UT. IIRC so is target shooting on public land (except renges I assume). There is no time limit on these regulations. They are in place until recinded by the forestry guy.
Backhanded non-legislature endorsed bullshit gun control.
From the Utah Constitution.
” Article I, Section 6. [Right to bear arms.]
The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms.”
“….as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed;”
Gov Herbert needs to read this.
I doubt most fires are caused by gunfire-
But steel jacketed ammo will spark. If you doubt this, shoot some steel targets at dusk.
Steel jacketed against rock or steel targets…maybe. normal target loads…they use brass and copper because they don’t create a spark. It’s not causing any fires.
I don’t come here that often and when I do I may stray off the rails vis-a-vis politeness.
My apologies to any thus affected.
Regarding the non-scorched telephone book scenario: It comes down to mass again. A telephone book, depending on where you live, can be either a small paperback book or quite a heavy thing. Either way, you’ll have an instantaneous burst of high heat (in an oxygen-starved environment) which will have its thermal and its concussive effect. The paper isn’t scorched because it’s backed with much more paper (that would be “mass”) and is blown out of the way. One page of the paper would, maybe heat to the flash-point but… no oxygen. Most likely it would be blown away as well during which time any heat it would have picked up would have dissipated.
Point taken but it doesn’t disprove mine.
Jim, and I offer again my apologies. Anything to keep your wife and teenage son from coming after me, you’ve gone some distance in helping me out.
Your trash can story. 30 seconds, I’m guessing that was your walk from where the shot was fired.
During that time, the hot bit of the (thin) galvanized steel would have been cooling in three different ways. Radiation – heating objects around it, probably not a factor. Convection – the air moving around and taking away bits of heat as it did. And conduction – the movement of the heat to the other parts of the can.
All these processes were at work over the course of those 30 seconds and yet you still found it uncomfortably hot.
Unless you’re talking about a military GI (Galvanized Iron) can, you’re talking about very thin steel with lots of surface area) which will be convecting, radiating and conducting that heat away all through that time you’re walking out to it.
Had you been able to put your hand on it immediately, would it have burned you – or anything else. Maybe so. Maybe no. Is that a chance worth taking at high summer?
It’s not a matter of “rights” or restricting anyone’s fun. It’s just being smart.
I assume, and feel I’m correct in that assumption, that readers of George’s blog are smart enough to know that, even if the physics aren’t clear, and they’re not that clear to me either, that’s it’s dumb to take the chance.
I just happen to make things really hot for a living and back in the day, as a guest of the Naval Nuclear Power Unit at Ft. Belvoir, I was given a crash course in thermodynamics.
The bottom line, and I think there’s little argument with you folks, is that it’s dangerous out there if you’re, in any way, producing high temperatures.
It’s not political, it’s not repression. It’s just not being stupid which, as I said, I’m sure is not the case of the readers of this.
People are capable of idiocy. That clown in CA (I think) who shot an incendiary, shotgun round off at a wedding party; that’s the problem, not responsible folks.
Pull your elbows in a little, guys (Me as well).
Just don’t be dumb.