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	<title>Comments on: Leave our Military Alone</title>
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	<description>Department of Torque and Recoil</description>
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		<title>By: Parabarbarian</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27173</link>
		<dc:creator>Parabarbarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The public schools being what they are maybe those guys really didn&#039;t know the double lightning bolts were the symbol of the schutzstaffel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The public schools being what they are maybe those guys really didn&#8217;t know the double lightning bolts were the symbol of the schutzstaffel.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27173" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27173', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27173-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27173" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27173', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27173-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Flint</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27142</link>
		<dc:creator>Flint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that actual Sig runes would cause that level of reaction.  They just don&#039;t look all that close to the Nazi SS trademark.  Two Sig&#039;s next to each other look like some angled lines, and are clearly runes - most folks would not immediately jump to &quot;SS&quot; when they saw that.

The &quot;SS&quot; trademark is instantly recognizable for what it is, because it&#039;s so different from the Sig rune.

Swastikas, on the other hand, are quite similar, whether in their original use, or how the Nazis drew them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that actual Sig runes would cause that level of reaction.  They just don&#8217;t look all that close to the Nazi SS trademark.  Two Sig&#8217;s next to each other look like some angled lines, and are clearly runes &#8211; most folks would not immediately jump to &#8220;SS&#8221; when they saw that.</p>
<p>The &#8220;SS&#8221; trademark is instantly recognizable for what it is, because it&#8217;s so different from the Sig rune.</p>
<p>Swastikas, on the other hand, are quite similar, whether in their original use, or how the Nazis drew them.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27142" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27142', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27142-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27142" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27142', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27142-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kristopher</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27090</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The swastica was also an ancient symbol, and one that was in use long before the Nazis coopted it.

Sorry, but that logic ain&#039;t going to clean the sig rune up any more than the swastica.

This was still astoundingly bad judgement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The swastica was also an ancient symbol, and one that was in use long before the Nazis coopted it.</p>
<p>Sorry, but that logic ain&#8217;t going to clean the sig rune up any more than the swastica.</p>
<p>This was still astoundingly bad judgement.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27090" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27090', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27090-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27090" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27090', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27090-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SquirrelCutter</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27088</link>
		<dc:creator>SquirrelCutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 04:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like I know spit about any of this, but it appears Flint is spot on with his observation.

A &quot;sig&quot; is one thing but the Nazi SS symbol seems to be exactly what is displayed on the flag in the photo at Ogre&#039;s link.

Hell, there&#039;s already a Wiki page on this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_(rune)

I haven&#039;t earned the right to mouth off about this, but the marks on the flag in the photo appear to be an exact copy of the Nazi Schutzstaffel ensignia.

I think I am bothered by this. I would never be anything but proud of the Marines who have earned the title Scout Sniper, but the symbology is disturbing. To me and others.

Still, if I had to fight, I&#039;d take any one of those guys to have my back in a heartbeat. I&#039;m not PC, so I don&#039;t think my feeling on this is related to anything but my gut reaction to what I have seen in a hundred war films.

Y&#039;all are the war fighters here, I&#039;m just a guy with a keyboard. And as always, my opinion is worth exactly what you just paid for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I know spit about any of this, but it appears Flint is spot on with his observation.</p>
<p>A &#8220;sig&#8221; is one thing but the Nazi SS symbol seems to be exactly what is displayed on the flag in the photo at Ogre&#8217;s link.</p>
<p>Hell, there&#8217;s already a Wiki page on this topic:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_(rune)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_(rune)</a></p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t earned the right to mouth off about this, but the marks on the flag in the photo appear to be an exact copy of the Nazi Schutzstaffel ensignia.</p>
<p>I think I am bothered by this. I would never be anything but proud of the Marines who have earned the title Scout Sniper, but the symbology is disturbing. To me and others.</p>
<p>Still, if I had to fight, I&#8217;d take any one of those guys to have my back in a heartbeat. I&#8217;m not PC, so I don&#8217;t think my feeling on this is related to anything but my gut reaction to what I have seen in a hundred war films.</p>
<p>Y&#8217;all are the war fighters here, I&#8217;m just a guy with a keyboard. And as always, my opinion is worth exactly what you just paid for it.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27088" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27088', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27088-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27088" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27088', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27088-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27040</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have to disagree. That is the symbol of the Nazi SS. What ever it was before, that is what it is now. 

The Marines could have chosen anything as their symbol. Choosing this shows poor judgment.  

But it is just a symbol, a symbol is a representation of a thing, and not the thing itself. I don&#039;t believe this constitutes an endorsement of the Nazi SS on the part of the Scout Snipers. 

That being said, were I a Marine, I&#039;d have a hell of a time showing up at the VA wearing that symbol...  

More importantly. The argument, if you are not an X you cannot criticize x&#039;s is poor reasoning. 

If that were valid, then couldn&#039;t you argue that you have no right to criticize the Nazi&#039;s unless you are a Nazi? 

Your logic tree has fallen down :-P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to disagree. That is the symbol of the Nazi SS. What ever it was before, that is what it is now. </p>
<p>The Marines could have chosen anything as their symbol. Choosing this shows poor judgment.  </p>
<p>But it is just a symbol, a symbol is a representation of a thing, and not the thing itself. I don&#8217;t believe this constitutes an endorsement of the Nazi SS on the part of the Scout Snipers. </p>
<p>That being said, were I a Marine, I&#8217;d have a hell of a time showing up at the VA wearing that symbol&#8230;  </p>
<p>More importantly. The argument, if you are not an X you cannot criticize x&#8217;s is poor reasoning. </p>
<p>If that were valid, then couldn&#8217;t you argue that you have no right to criticize the Nazi&#8217;s unless you are a Nazi? </p>
<p>Your logic tree has fallen down :-P</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27040" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27040', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27040-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27040" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27040', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27040-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chad C</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27033</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Try explaining the origins of sig runes and the traditions of other MOSs in other  services to hiring managers and corporate HR depts.  Try explaining it to college and missions committees.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try explaining the origins of sig runes and the traditions of other MOSs in other  services to hiring managers and corporate HR depts.  Try explaining it to college and missions committees.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27033" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27033', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27033-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27033" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27033', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27033-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Flint</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27026</link>
		<dc:creator>Flint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(pardon any typos - kids spilled juice on my keyboard, so it&#039;s not running quite right)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(pardon any typos &#8211; kids spilled juice on my keyboard, so it&#8217;s not running quite right)</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27026" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27026', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27026-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27026" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27026', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27026-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Flint</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27025</link>
		<dc:creator>Flint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-27025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Was it Sig-Sig, or the Nazi &quot;SS&quot; symbol that the Sergeant had as a tattoo?

A &quot;Sig&quot; is drawn with two vertical lines, and an inclined connecting bar.  The trademark (literally - Heck designed it, then sold it to the SS) used by the SS had two inclined lines, and no connecting bar - the likes merely meet, forming the connection directly.

If the lines are directly touching, and inlcined, then what&#039;s being displayed is not &quot;Sig-Sig,&quot; it&#039;s the trademark of the SS.  And that&#039;s what&#039;s on that flag.  It may have been intentional, or it may have been some misunderstanding by someone who&#039;d heard that &quot;Sig-Sig&quot; was not a Nazi symbol, and took that to mean that the SS trademark was not, either, without realizing the important differences between the two.

Having a hammer and a sickle hanging on the wall in your toolshed does not make you a communist.  Displaying the specific overlapping hammer and sickel symbol used by the USSR, on the other hand...

I have no doubt that some Scout Snipers have caught undeserved shit for displaying Sig runes.  But that&#039;s not what these particular Marines were doing; they were displaying a direct copy of the Nazi SS trademark.  Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, it is either inexcusable worship of the Nazis, or inexcusable failure to do due diligence in choosing the artwork.  Obviously, one is more severe than the other.  But, in either case, it needs to be dealt with properly, and the difference betweel the &quot;Sig&quot; and the SS trademark needs to be explained publicly, so those who have the real &quot;Sig-Sig&quot; won&#039;t suffer undue scorn, and those with the SS trademark will either correct the error, or be righteously scorned for supporting the Nazis, in the (hopefully-rare) cases where that is the case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was it Sig-Sig, or the Nazi &#8220;SS&#8221; symbol that the Sergeant had as a tattoo?</p>
<p>A &#8220;Sig&#8221; is drawn with two vertical lines, and an inclined connecting bar.  The trademark (literally &#8211; Heck designed it, then sold it to the SS) used by the SS had two inclined lines, and no connecting bar &#8211; the likes merely meet, forming the connection directly.</p>
<p>If the lines are directly touching, and inlcined, then what&#8217;s being displayed is not &#8220;Sig-Sig,&#8221; it&#8217;s the trademark of the SS.  And that&#8217;s what&#8217;s on that flag.  It may have been intentional, or it may have been some misunderstanding by someone who&#8217;d heard that &#8220;Sig-Sig&#8221; was not a Nazi symbol, and took that to mean that the SS trademark was not, either, without realizing the important differences between the two.</p>
<p>Having a hammer and a sickle hanging on the wall in your toolshed does not make you a communist.  Displaying the specific overlapping hammer and sickel symbol used by the USSR, on the other hand&#8230;</p>
<p>I have no doubt that some Scout Snipers have caught undeserved shit for displaying Sig runes.  But that&#8217;s not what these particular Marines were doing; they were displaying a direct copy of the Nazi SS trademark.  Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, it is either inexcusable worship of the Nazis, or inexcusable failure to do due diligence in choosing the artwork.  Obviously, one is more severe than the other.  But, in either case, it needs to be dealt with properly, and the difference betweel the &#8220;Sig&#8221; and the SS trademark needs to be explained publicly, so those who have the real &#8220;Sig-Sig&#8221; won&#8217;t suffer undue scorn, and those with the SS trademark will either correct the error, or be righteously scorned for supporting the Nazis, in the (hopefully-rare) cases where that is the case.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27025" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27025', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-27025-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27025" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27025', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-27025-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sohmdaddy</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-26994</link>
		<dc:creator>sohmdaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-26994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, then more training I guess. If there is an obesity problem in the military. Seems like that type of thing would take care of itself without Michelle Obama&#039;s wisdom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, then more training I guess. If there is an obesity problem in the military. Seems like that type of thing would take care of itself without Michelle Obama&#8217;s wisdom.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26994" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26994', 'add', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-26994-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26994" src="http://madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26994', 'subtract', 'madogre.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-26994-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Daniel Shaw</title>
		<link>http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-26963</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madogre.com/?p=2439#comment-26963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think everyone else has the ad hominem covored, so I&#039;ll just throw out the crazy idea that maybe we love our country and freedom so much that we sweat daily training for the fight.  When it&#039;s time to go we say good bye to our families with tears in our eyes.  We go not because we love the fight, but because we love our families and don&#039;t want them to have to suffer battle as we have.  I don&#039;t know you, but I hope your children don&#039;t have to see what I have seen, so even though you are to ignorant to see it, I will leave my family once again to do my part in insuring that your children live in peace and freedom.  I&#039;m guessing here, but based on your post I think it&#039;s safe to assume that you don&#039;t even realize that our freedom and way of life is threatened.

&quot; If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace&quot; - Thomas Paine]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think everyone else has the ad hominem covored, so I&#8217;ll just throw out the crazy idea that maybe we love our country and freedom so much that we sweat daily training for the fight.  When it&#8217;s time to go we say good bye to our families with tears in our eyes.  We go not because we love the fight, but because we love our families and don&#8217;t want them to have to suffer battle as we have.  I don&#8217;t know you, but I hope your children don&#8217;t have to see what I have seen, so even though you are to ignorant to see it, I will leave my family once again to do my part in insuring that your children live in peace and freedom.  I&#8217;m guessing here, but based on your post I think it&#8217;s safe to assume that you don&#8217;t even realize that our freedom and way of life is threatened.</p>
<p>&#8221; If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace&#8221; &#8211; Thomas Paine</p>
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